Mission Accomplished
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I would like an apology. This team isn't going to change. Quite blaming Corbin!
All of you who negative repped me for hating on KOC
- Thread starter Mission Accomplished
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HeavenHarris
Banned
why cant we blame KOC and TyCo? i blame both!
HeavenHarris
Banned
but tbh i blame TyCo more...KOC has a lot more pressure from ownership imo than most peeps realize bros. realize. realize.
Xsy
Well-Known Member
Real talk, Kevin O'Connor has put is in a pretty cherry position.
We went from a lotto team to a playoff caliber team in HALF A SEASON. That is absolutely unprecedented. I don't know if there's another GM out there that can do that. Most small market teams rot in lottery limbo for a couple seasons before hitting the 8 seed again.
Think about the work Kevin O'Connor has done over the past couple years. Think about it-- the only player remaining from the 2010 playoffs is Paul Millsap. We've gone through a COMPLETE roster change and are already a playoff team. On top of being a playoff team, we have a bright and promising future. We got 4 lotto picks in 2 years. More than this franchise has ever had before. Only one of them was our own pick. He even picked up a gem in an unloved DeMarre Carroll.
The biggest reason most of us Jazz fans are so irate right now is because our awful coach is refusing to play the pieces that Kevin O'Connor has gotten for us. Corbin has been playing it safe instead of smart, which is a loser's strategy.
We went from a lotto team to a playoff caliber team in HALF A SEASON. That is absolutely unprecedented. I don't know if there's another GM out there that can do that. Most small market teams rot in lottery limbo for a couple seasons before hitting the 8 seed again.
Think about the work Kevin O'Connor has done over the past couple years. Think about it-- the only player remaining from the 2010 playoffs is Paul Millsap. We've gone through a COMPLETE roster change and are already a playoff team. On top of being a playoff team, we have a bright and promising future. We got 4 lotto picks in 2 years. More than this franchise has ever had before. Only one of them was our own pick. He even picked up a gem in an unloved DeMarre Carroll.
The biggest reason most of us Jazz fans are so irate right now is because our awful coach is refusing to play the pieces that Kevin O'Connor has gotten for us. Corbin has been playing it safe instead of smart, which is a loser's strategy.
fishonjazz
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I have never negged anyone before, and im still not gonna, but damn if my finger wasn't on the trigger.
I love the young talent on this team that KOC has aquired. I blame ty for not playing them more. I think KOC got foye expecting him to be a back up player with spot minutes but corbin screwed that up.
I love the young talent on this team that KOC has aquired. I blame ty for not playing them more. I think KOC got foye expecting him to be a back up player with spot minutes but corbin screwed that up.
gregbroncs
Well-Known Member
Haha. You deserved those negs from everybody and deserve more for this one. Corbin is the problem. He's the one not playing the talent KOC assembled. He's the one that has no idea how to get his team to run an offense. And he's the one playing the non-defenders over the ones who actually try and play defense.
Koc has given us a fairly talented roster. Corbin just refuses to use it.
Koc has given us a fairly talented roster. Corbin just refuses to use it.
Getting Traded
Banned
Totally agree.
Hotdog
Well-Known Member
So you all hate the coach and come up with different trade ideas everyday that never materialize, but you love the job the General manager has done with the team?
Fantastic!! You are all ****ing retarded.
I got news for you guys. KOC does have a say who plays. They have group meetings and talk about all this stuff. I have heard it from Randy Rigby himself in a few different interviews. I heard Gordon Monson specifically ask Randy Rigby about Derrick Favors playing time. He said himself, and I quote, "we talk about these sorta of things all the time, and we feel that the young guys need to earn their playing time"
So regardless of how you feel or what you think, their is actual pressure on Corbin to go with the veteran group. Not just because of the sense that they have to earn their minutes, but because there is a lot of pressure on Corbin to win now, to make money, and protect the brand of making the playoffs consistently.
Like Frank said, all your comments are pretty embarrassing. It shows your lack of understanding the relationship between Jazz management and Jazz coaching. It also shows just how short your memory and attention span is. This is nothing new to the Jazz way. We have never given the keys to a bunch of young guys and said its all yours now. Jazz would not make the playoffs. And that wouldnt sit well with management and ownership.
Is Corbin making mistakes as a coach? Yes. But he isnt doing anything the management doesnt want him to do. You cant separate the two. Do you really think that management is looking at this and thinking the same things as you? That Corbin is a bad coach, and our veterans are terrible players? Why the hell would they just sit there and let it go on if they weren't on the same page as Corbin? You do know that Corbin doesnt hire and fire himself right? They could fire him anytime they want, and they could move one of these guys anytime they want to. Any team in the league would gladly take any one of our starters off our hands. They are all pretty good players on very nice and short contracts, with the exception of Marvin. He would probably be the hardest to move, and still he would probably be pretty easy to move.
You all are just burying your heads in the sand, pretending that management doesnt have anything to do with the team that is presented to you. They everything to do with the team you see..
Fantastic!! You are all ****ing retarded.
I got news for you guys. KOC does have a say who plays. They have group meetings and talk about all this stuff. I have heard it from Randy Rigby himself in a few different interviews. I heard Gordon Monson specifically ask Randy Rigby about Derrick Favors playing time. He said himself, and I quote, "we talk about these sorta of things all the time, and we feel that the young guys need to earn their playing time"
So regardless of how you feel or what you think, their is actual pressure on Corbin to go with the veteran group. Not just because of the sense that they have to earn their minutes, but because there is a lot of pressure on Corbin to win now, to make money, and protect the brand of making the playoffs consistently.
Like Frank said, all your comments are pretty embarrassing. It shows your lack of understanding the relationship between Jazz management and Jazz coaching. It also shows just how short your memory and attention span is. This is nothing new to the Jazz way. We have never given the keys to a bunch of young guys and said its all yours now. Jazz would not make the playoffs. And that wouldnt sit well with management and ownership.
Is Corbin making mistakes as a coach? Yes. But he isnt doing anything the management doesnt want him to do. You cant separate the two. Do you really think that management is looking at this and thinking the same things as you? That Corbin is a bad coach, and our veterans are terrible players? Why the hell would they just sit there and let it go on if they weren't on the same page as Corbin? You do know that Corbin doesnt hire and fire himself right? They could fire him anytime they want, and they could move one of these guys anytime they want to. Any team in the league would gladly take any one of our starters off our hands. They are all pretty good players on very nice and short contracts, with the exception of Marvin. He would probably be the hardest to move, and still he would probably be pretty easy to move.
You all are just burying your heads in the sand, pretending that management doesnt have anything to do with the team that is presented to you. They everything to do with the team you see..
fishonjazz
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Thats a good point hack, and you are probably right..... however burks ridin pine ultimately comes down to corbin..... For example: if corbin started playing burks 28 minutes per game and he was playing amazing and the jazz went on a 15 game win streak, im pretty sure that jazz management would be ok with it.
Im sure they all get together and talk about who plays and how much, but i bet in those meeting ty isnt saying "i think burks, favors, and kanter need more playing time", and jazz management is disagreeing.... I have a feeling that corbin is saying "if i keep playing the guys im playing then we will gel as a team and reach the playoffs" and management probably just says ok ty give it a try, you are the coach.
jope
Well-Known Member
I agree with your post.
However i think its just funny (in regards to the bolded) that his best interests in playing the vets for wins and playoff births has us in position for the 10th spot in the west. This, combined with the fact that our 4 centerpieces (the primary prizes for shipping away a guy who was going for 21 & 10 at the time) are getting a combined 60-ish minutes a night (with one racking up the DNP-CD's) is leading to so much ill-content.
I don't care who's fault it is, at this point it doesn't matter. What i do care about is finding a way to become a better defensive team, and i believe that starts and ends with the coach. Until we strive for defensive greatness, we will always be < 7th seed.
fishonjazz
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I just cant imagine that in these meetings that hack talks about, that corbin is like i really want to play the young guys more... and koc/linsey/rigby/miller etc ect are saying NO corbin you must keep the youth on the bench and only give major minutes to vets.
I just think that is a little far fetched.
I do think that it is possible that corbin AND management both want to play the vets and if that is the case then they are all screwing this up.
It seems to me that KOC would want to see his guys that he drafted and traded d-will for, get to play more.
I just think that is a little far fetched.
I do think that it is possible that corbin AND management both want to play the vets and if that is the case then they are all screwing this up.
It seems to me that KOC would want to see his guys that he drafted and traded d-will for, get to play more.
Hotdog
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I want see what you guys want to see. I want more minutes for the youth. I just dont believe that management feels the same about that approach. I dont think that the blame is solely on Corbin. Blame has to go on him and management. This was an organized effort, and a shared vision by all parties involved. They all had input on this thing. From ownership, to Randy Rigby, to KOC, to Corbin, and to Corbin' s assistants. Corbin isnt on an island here making all the decisions.
All I am saying is be consistent. You cant place all the blame on Corbin. You cant love the work of the GM and at the same time hate the product. They go hand in hand.
It is what it is.. The Jazz are a small market team with a slim profit margin in a terrible economy. They have to make money. Its a business first. We dont have the same luxuries as a large market team, and an ownership with deep pockets. At least that is what we are lead to believe. If the Jazz decided to go with a youth movement, they would assuredly be a pretty bad team, at least that's what they believe. It would be fun for us kind of fans, but not for the casual fan.
Hotdog
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You have to also understand that Corbin doesnt hold as much clout as an experienced coach with a proven track record. Right now he playing for his coaching career. He is essentially a yes man at this point. As long as Jefferson and Millsap are still on the team he is going to take that as an underlying message by management to play them. So of course he is going to do what he thinks management wants. His first stint as head coach could make or break his career. It would be awfully risky for him to bench Al or any of the other vets that management went out and got him to play. The management needs to do him a favor and makes some moves to make his decisions easier.
I think the FO lets Corbin do his job and are just hoping he will suddenly be one of the greatest managers of minutes allocation and player pride in the history of the league while they try to figure out just what the **** it is they're hoping to accomplish this year. Which is ****ing STUPID.
Was it management's idea to implement the big 3 lineup (which was the sole reason we made the playoffs last year) and then to completely abandon it the instant Josh Howard got back from injury? Was it also management's idea to not have the Jazz run any sort of, as Harpring put it, a "****ing offense"?
Not saying Hack is wrong, but even with all those restrictions potentially on him Corbin's still had an excellent chance to prove his competence as a head coach and completely failed.
Not saying Hack is wrong, but even with all those restrictions potentially on him Corbin's still had an excellent chance to prove his competence as a head coach and completely failed.