Jefferson named among ESPN's Top 5 Overrated Rebounders

[Xsy]

Just a snippet of Neil Paine's insider article. (That's the rule, right? Snippets of insider articles are okay, just as long as we don't post the whole thing?)

Al Jefferson, Utah Jazz
Jefferson has long been a practitioner of the art of empty rebounding numbers. Superficially, his 9.0 rpg average and 17.2 career rebound rate (30th-best in NBA history) might tempt you into thinking he's a premier glass-cleaner, but those numbers belie the underwhelming impact he's traditionally had on his teams' rebounding performances. Last year, researcher Evan Zamir looked at how players impact their teams' rebound rates (over the previous three seasons), accounting for quality of teammates and opponents. The stats show that for all of Jefferson's individual rebounding stats, he's made his teams softer on the glass on both ends of the floor. That trend has continued in 2012-13; Jefferson still has a major difference between his rebounding rate and that of his teammates, the Jazz aren't rebounding anywhere near as well as you'd predict given their component players, and Utah rebounds much, much worse with Jefferson in the game.

Rebounding is undoubtedly a valuable skill for a player to have, but only if it improves his team's bottom line. All too often, players who put up monster individual rebounding numbers aren't actually increasing their teams' rebound rates.

I don't know how Jefferson does it, but he just makes everything worse.

Other names mentioned in the article include Asik, Hickson, Cousins, and Howard.

https://insider.espn.go.com/nba/sto...rebounding-specialists-post-empty-numbers-nba

 

[Weezur]

Ahh..... more ammo to beat up our dead horse.
Good find.

 

[bovice]

nvm

 

[orangello]

Just a snippet of Neil Paine's insider article. (That's the rule, right? Snippets of insider articles are okay, just as long as we don't post the whole thing?)



I don't know how Jefferson does it, but he just makes everything worse.

Other names mentioned in the article include Asik, Hickson, Cousins, and Howard.

https://insider.espn.go.com/nba/sto...rebounding-specialists-post-empty-numbers-nba

I'm starting to feel bad for this guy.

I'm also starting to feel sick at the thought he might possibly be with this team after this season.

Does anyone have a remedy for this?

 

[HeavenHarris]

.

 

[mellow]

Wow, it looks the Jazz PR department picked up on this-

SALT LAKE CITY (January 8, 2013) – ESPN, the sports leader,today honored Utah Jazz forward Ricardo (Al) Jefferson by naming him to the top 5 of an elite group of rebounders. ESPN writer Neil Paine describes Jefferson as an elite glass cleaner and points out Jefferson's 17.2 career rebound rate is 30th-best in NBA history.

Now in his 9th NBA season and 3rd season with the Jazz, Jefferson (6-10, 289, Prentiss H.S., Prentiss, Miss.) has appeared in 35 games (all starts) this season and is averaging 16.7 points, 9.8 rebounds and 2.0 assists in 32.6 minutes per game. Jefferson has lead the Utah Jazz in rebounding in each of his three seasons since joining the team.

 

[carolinajazz]

...like Boozer, Big Al grabs half his rebounds off missed free throws!

 

[HeavenHarris]

...like Boozer, Big Al grabs half his rebounds off missed free throws!

i dont think you have any stats to back this up bro. why do u choose to live this life of lies bro?

 

[bjunior]

black hole.. nothing new

 

[Lion's Roar]

I guess Daryl Morey doesn't understand anything about numbers since he signed Asik......Besides Rebounding Rate is a crappy stat either way. The mention that someone did the math means ZERO to me unless I can actually see how the adjustment was done.

 

[Brown Notes]

i dont think you have any stats to back this up bro. why do u choose to live this life of lies bro?

Too many bros, not enough hos.

 

[pickledXgrandma]

Wow, it looks the Jazz PR department picked up on this-

Wait is this for real? Haha they seriously got the exact opposite out of it? Isn't that false advertisement?

 

[cctrackstar]

Unbelievable. And how is it that someone who is rebounding so much is bad at reabounding?

Al is the primary 'rebounder' on the team when he's on the floor. It's just what he does. I think the problem is that when he is in there, the other four players on the floor stop trying to get rebounds thinking that Al will get it anyway, so boards that would have been obtainable outside of Al's range go to the other team. When Al comes out then everyone else picks up the slack and they rebound better. It's not Al's fault unless he gets upset when someone else gets a board. It's the rest of the team's fault for being lazy and not trying because Al's in there.

It's the same problem the team has on offence when Al 'the black hole' gets the ball in the post. Sure he has a history of not passing the ball, but have you looked at the rest of the team? They just stand there and wait for him to shoot, they aren't cutting, they aren't getting open, so why should he pass it to them? Al has been getting better at this, or has the team started trying to get position finally? I think there are some lazy players on this team non named Al on both offense and defense.

 

[zman1527]

The rationale:

Unlike baseball, a sport in which the marginal value of a given action at the individual level is essentially the same at the team level -- upgrading to a new third baseman who hits 10 more home runs than the old one, for instance, will result in 10 more home runs for the team -- adding, say, a prolific individual rebounder does not necessarily mean the team will reap big benefits on the boards.

Why is this? The main reason is that the act of rebounding involves players competing not just with opponents but also with members of their own teams. There are only so many boards to go around on a team, and often seemingly productive rebounders rack up gaudy totals in part by "stealing" boards from teammates, rather than adding extra rebounds to their teams' bottom lines.

He then goes on with stats that show that elite rebounders do not increase the rebounding percentage for their teams, they just take rebounds from teamates seems to be the point. Thus it seems like not such a knock on BA as it is on top rebounders in general. That's what I got out of the intro. No subscrip so I did not read beyond that.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Useless article. Al can rebound if he wants to. He's at least a decent defensive rebounder.

 

[cctrackstar]

So, let me get this straight: In order for Al to become a better rebounder he needs to stop rebounding.

What a load of crap. As I already said, the rest of the team needs to step up. If Al is getting all the post rebounds, then box out further out. If your guy is trying to get a rebound instead of running the court, then box him out and get it instead, even if that's outside of the paint. I am glad that Al is trying to put the team on his back, but I really do think that the rest of the team is lazy and isn't trying hard enough themselves.

 

[Brown Notes]

Crazy how far Dwight has fallen since he was dominating the league. Two years ago I'd have said Miami is a better team trading LBJ for him straight up. Of course James got better too but still, wow.

 

[infection]

Crazy how far Dwight has fallen since he was dominating the league. Two years ago I'd have said Miami is a better team trading LBJ for him straight up. Of course James got better too but still, wow.

Dominating the league? Dwight is a huge cancer without any real toughness mentally. He's Tracy McGrady 2.0 with much, much more drama and a handbag away from a princess.

 

[sojodave]

 

[BYE]

The rationale:

He then goes on with stats that show that elite rebounders do not increase the rebounding percentage for their teams, they just take rebounds from teamates seems to be the point. Thus it seems like not such a knock on BA as it is on top rebounders in general. That's what I got out of the intro. No subscrip so I did not read beyond that.

Interesting thesis. I'd like to know how teams get better at rebounding then. Something tells me that Miami wouldn't mind Asik or Verajao "stealing" more defensive rebounds for them.

It seems there are at least two ways:
1) Personnel (it's interesting that the teams with the most rebounds/48 minutes are Minnesota, Indiana, Denver, L.A., Golden State etc.). Each one of these teams has at least one quality rebounder if not two or three for their position (Minn.: Love; Indiana: George, Hibbert, West; Denver: Faried, Koufos, McGee; L.A.: Howard, Jordan, Gasol; G.S.: Lee). The rest of the teams seem to follow suit as well with Boston and Miami (both without Centers) coming in last.

2) Defensive balance and positioning, i.e., when someone challenges a shot, another player boxes out the man that that player left.

Types of rebounds are important as Locke showed that teams that offensive rebound in the top are often bad teams unless they defensive rebound well also, while those that defensive rebound in the top are usually top teams.

Also, how bad your team's shooting % will dictate how many rebounds you get.