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Is our wing rotation set?/ George's 'Halfway mark of the season' Thread

George

George

Banned
Don't worry, I'm not going to make this thread about some sort of chicken wing rotisserie-kit.


I've been thinking about the strengths and weaknesses of this Jazz team, as well as areas in which we should hold onto the players we have; and areas in which we need improvement from our squad.


At the half way point, lets have some pros and cons (Note: I have not cross-referenced my findings with statistics. George don' have tym for that):

Pros:
-Transition game seems improved. Hell, it seems very good. Hayward is great, Burks is rusty but the potential is there, and Tinsley is just unbelievably good at pushing the ball
- Al Jefferson's improvement in passing
- Kanter's and Favors's improvements in passing
- The growth of Gordon Hayward
- OUTSIDE SHOOTING
- Our wing rotation in general
- Halfcourt offensive-dynamicism has shown a recent trend in improvement


Cons:
- No halfcourt offensive-consistency, whatsoever. In fact, whenever we are in need of a bucket in the half court (often late in 4th quarters), we have no choice but to feed it to Al. When Al is shut down by the other team's defense, we fall apart completely. I will elaborate on the reasoning behind this later
- Defense. Not sure where we are at relative to the league, but it certainly hasn't been pretty at times. Al Jefferson has shown little improvement. Millsap has been worse at times than recent memory. Favors is not getting enough minutes. Etc, etc. Notably, our PG rotation of Tinsley and Watson has lately left us susceptible to the will's of good PGs. Except for Irving recently, which I thought was interesting.





Personally, I am thinking that this Jazz team, coupled with consistency in the half-court, could be a very scary team for any opponent. Right now, the Jazz front office need to start thinking of Plan Bs (or a different Plan A altogether) once Jefferson is being focused on by the other team's defense.

Against Miami, we exploited this through a great showing of Gordon Hayward. However, can we count on him for this for the next few seasons??

This is where I think bringing in a solid point guard could give us an unbelievable boost forward.

I think Mr. O'Connor believed that Mo had the skills to truly harness, and improve the play of players, notably Favors, who might need offensive facilitation to get their scoring groove on.


Otherwise, we wil have to keep our fingers-crossed, and hope that our offensive-execution steadily improves, with more cuts from Carroll, Hayward, and Burks. Also, getting several shots with Hayward coming off screens late game a la JJ Reddick could be another thing to think about.



As far as positions are concerned:

Wing rotation: SET. Carroll; Burks; Hayward; Foye. Each player brings something else to the table. Throw in Marvin Williams, and you'll find that there is not a wing player in the NBA that this unit can't do a competent job of defending. Not to mention the 3 point shooting, cuts, tenacity, and rebounding that they all can offer.
Point Guard rotation: Mo Williams experiment is still not over, i guess. Still, I feel that his role is best as a backup. Tinsley is an amazing backup PG. Watson is certainly the odd one out here. What I would do for a 28 year old Tinsley......
Bigs: I am of the opinion that Millsap should be traded either for a point guard, or for a draft pick.




And there you have it. Hopefully this didn't bore y'all too much. Looking forward to an exciting latter 50%. Tell me what y'all think.

-George
 
Hey George, UGLI here.

Good thread with some good thoughts.

Glad to have ya contributing to the board.

-UGLI
 
UGLI baby said:
Hey George, UGLI here.

Good thread with some good thoughts.

Glad to have ya contributing to the board.

-UGLI
Click to expand...

Thanks for the kind comments, Mr. UGLI. I was told that I was prepubescent. Is there anyway that I can quicken this hair growth?
 
George said:
Thanks for the kind comments, Mr. UGLI. I was told that I was prepubescent. Is there anyway that I can quicken this hair growth?
Click to expand...

There are several treatments I'd recommend, however I feel it's important for you to know that haters are going to hate no matter what you do.

I'd just keep doing yor thang and dedicate all of your success to your haters.
 
Nice thread George i enjoyed reading it. Tl;dr is just a thing that haters would say, cause thats a great post.
And a friendly suggestion for your case, i see you're suffering from it; use pine oil.
 
Nice job.

Pros: What to do with AJ/Millsap.

Cons: What to do with AJ/Millsap. Getting more minutes for Kanter/Favors.

I also think the SF/SG is not set. Have the Jazz improved? Certainly but the Jazz need another go to guy in the back court. A player who can make shots when the offense breaks down. This might be Burks in the future but right now they have an inconsistent Hayward and/or Foye.

Jazz need a true PG to run the half court stuff and still be able to push the tempo. Tinsley is a very good back up. Mo is more of a SG in a PG body. He is good at pushing tempo but not so great running the half court offense.

Another pro/con depending how you look at it, Jazz have a lot of expiring contracts so they have a chance to rebuild/fix the issues they have but they also could lose some of the pieces. I believe these next two years are critical in the longer term success of the franchise.
 
I think it makes a lot more sense to look at the Jazz's collection of perimeter players (including point guards). While the Jazz have some decent depth, they lack the top end talent that pretty much all other good teams have on the perimeter.

In the west:

OKC: Wetbrook,Durant
Clips: Chris Paul
Spurs: Tony, Manu
Memphis: Gay, Conley
W's: Curry
Denver: Lawson, Iggy
Houston: Harden

The best the Jazz have on the perimeter is Gordo. An upgrade is needed.
 
Dear God... another day without a game... I thought for sure the game against the Wiz was tonight. WTTFFF. 1 game in over a week? sdas'ldmweasdasdasd
 
cowhide said:
I also think the SF/SG is not set. Have the Jazz improved? Certainly but the Jazz need another go to guy in the back court. A player who can make shots when the offense breaks down. This might be Burks in the future but right now they have an inconsistent Hayward and/or Foye.
Click to expand...

One of my greatest frustrations this year is how Corbin is playing Hayward. He deserves much more than the 20-25 minutes Corbin is giving him each game. His limited playing time contributes to his perceived inconsistency. Many quality players start games out cold, but they are given enough playing time to play their way out and get into a rhythm. If Hayward is off to a slow start in any game, he isn't given the time to play his way out, rather in some cases, Corbin cuts his playing time that game.

I know that people here like to compare Hayward to Paul George, but if you look at George's box score, he is up and down on a regular basis, but he is playing well over 30 minutes a game consistently, so he is given the chance to play his way out of poor starts. Were he given the same time Hayward is, I think we would see very similar inconsistencies, while if Hayward were given George's playing time, I think we'd see a 16-17 point scoring average and a bit more consistency in terms of his scoring and other stats. (For the record, I think George is a great player--probably better than Hayward, I'm sorry to say.)

Although I was happy to see Foye have a great game against Cleveland, I think Hayward is by far the superior player, and I am growing frustrated to the point of losing interest altogether seeing how Corbin continues to limit Hayward's playing time for journeyman vets like Foye and Bell and Howard last year. For the love of God, I cannot figure out what Corbin's thinking and what the Jazz FO's plan is. Outside of Corbin, is there anyone anywhere else in the league who thinks that Foye is equal to Hayward or at least deserving of equal playing time?
 
Sneakers said:
Dear God... another day without a game... I thought for sure the game against the Wiz was tonight. WTTFFF. 1 game in over a week? sdas'ldmweasdasdasd
Click to expand...

I feel ya dog, its driving me crazy too
 
ESPN did its Top 25 under 25 today.... not a single Jazz player.

Larry Sanders and Ed Davis made it though.

Lol.
 
George said:
Any comments from the OP, Mr. Catchsome?
Click to expand...

Well George, I'm thinking the team needs a real two-way PG and another player on the wing who can create his own shot. Hayward's inconsistency makes him suspect, and players like Foye, Marvin Williams, Carroll are basically just spot-up shooters. A PG who can set up other players and take all the way to the rim when he wants to would make a world of difference for this team. Hayward's game is diverse enough for him to be an effective facilitator, and Burks has potential to be a very good all-around player. Meanwhile, I've never really believed in Millsap as a starting-caliber PF night in and night out, which is why I'd be open to trading him.

Take care, George.
 
GVC said:
I think it makes a lot more sense to look at the Jazz's collection of perimeter players (including point guards). While the Jazz have some decent depth, they lack the top end talent that pretty much all other good teams have on the perimeter.

In the west:

OKC: Wetbrook,Durant
Clips: Chris Paul
Spurs: Tony, Manu
Memphis: Gay, Conley
W's: Curry
Denver: Lawson, Iggy
Houston: Harden

The best the Jazz have on the perimeter is Gordo. An upgrade is needed.
Click to expand...

Can you take it a step further by pointing out any possible players we should perhaps try to acquire via trade or did you just want to point out the obvious?
 
GVC said:
I think it makes a lot more sense to look at the Jazz's collection of perimeter players (including point guards). While the Jazz have some decent depth, they lack the top end talent that pretty much all other good teams have on the perimeter.

In the west:

OKC: Wetbrook,Durant
Clips: Chris Paul
Spurs: Tony, Manu
Memphis: Gay, Conley
W's: Curry
Denver: Lawson, Iggy
Houston: Harden

The best the Jazz have on the perimeter is Gordo. An upgrade is needed.
Click to expand...

I will ignore Point Guards for a second.

Once we do so, we are left with Harden (potentially an exception-- as he plays very much like a combo guard), Iguodala,Durant, Gay, and Manu.



Durant is simply a top 3 player, and we likely will never have a play of his caliber on this team.

That leaves us with Gay, Iggy, and Manu.

First, lets compare the play of Gordon Hayward, with Manu Ginobili. Id say shooting is a wash, with both players excelling eachother in certain ways statistically.

I would say that they main edge that Manu at this point in his career has OVER Hayward is his assists, or facilitating in general.
However: this is a point where I, along with many other posters here, see as a place where Gordon can, and will improve.

So we essentially have a 2012 Manu upcoming with Hayward.


That leaves us with Gay and Iggy.
Personally, I would rather take Carroll and Foye over a player like Iggy, both in terms of team buildup-chemsitry, offensive-versatility, and cap-relief. But that's just my opinion.

That leaves us with Gay. Personally, I wouldn't ever really want him on this Jazz team.


So in terms of WINGS, that leaves only Harden and Durant as players who are clearly better than our Jazz players. If this is really all we are up against, then Im fine. Not to mention our DEPTH with our wing rotation. OKC is obviously first, and Houston is decent as well (only offensively-- certainly not defensively). Who else has a deeper wing rotation? Two wing players shooting above 40% from 3, Gordon beasting from the bench, and Burks still waiting to explode. Not to mention Carroll's hustle.



The point guard position is an anomaly. We need a good facilitator-- otherwise, we will have to continue to revolve our Jazz offense around Al Jefferson. Right now, we don't have a player that is anywhere near Parker, Harden, or Paul in terms of facilitation, or getting into our sets.

But hey, that seems to be that last piece of the puzzle here (a rather large piece, of course). Once we find it, I could see us resembling a team similar to the Pacers in terms of solidarity with positions 1-5, as well as being competitive with nearly every team in the league, culminating with a top 4 conference seed.


-George
 
George said:
I will ignore Point Guards for a second.

Once we do so, we are left with Harden (potentially an exception-- as he plays very much like a combo guard), Iguodala,Durant, Gay, and Manu.



Durant is simply a top 3 player, and we likely will never have a play of his caliber on this team.

That leaves us with Gay, Iggy, and Manu.

First, lets compare the play of Gordon Hayward, with Manu Ginobili. Id say shooting is a wash, with both players excelling eachother in certain ways statistically.

I would say that they main edge that Manu at this point in his career has OVER Hayward is his assists, or facilitating in general.
However: this is a point where I, along with many other posters here, see as a place where Gordon can, and will improve.

So we essentially have a 2012 Manu upcoming with Hayward.


That leaves us with Gay and Iggy.
Personally, I would rather take Carroll and Foye over a player like Iggy, both in terms of team buildup-chemsitry, offensive-versatility, and cap-relief. But that's just my opinion.

That leaves us with Gay. Personally, I wouldn't ever really want him on this Jazz team.


So in terms of WINGS, that leaves only Harden and Durant as players who are clearly better than our Jazz players. If this is really all we are up against, then Im fine. Not to mention our DEPTH with our wing rotation. OKC is obviously first, and Houston is decent as well (only offensively-- certainly not defensively). Who else has a deeper wing rotation? Two wing players shooting above 40% from 3, Gordon beasting from the bench, and Burks still waiting to explode. Not to mention Carroll's hustle.



The point guard position is an anomaly. We need a good facilitator-- otherwise, we will have to continue to revolve our Jazz offense around Al Jefferson. Right now, we don't have a player that is anywhere near Parker, Harden, or Paul in terms of facilitation, or getting into our sets.

But hey, that seems to be that last piece of the puzzle here (a rather large piece, of course). Once we find it, I could see us resembling a team similar to the Pacers in terms of solidarity with positions 1-5, as well as being competitive with nearly every team in the league, culminating with a top 4 conference seed.


-George
Click to expand...

Bookmarked for later reading.
 
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