#41 Wizzards at Jazz, Wed. Jan 23rd 7 PM mtn. On TV and radio

[franklin]

Read my earlier post. The bench blew the lead last night, but since that doesn't fit certain agendas it's time to change the facts. Same thing with the Miami game. It's ridiculous.

This is the NBA, teams will make runs. It's not like the bench sucks and they deserve to be crucified for inconsistency, and if everybody was a vet (or everybody was on rook contracts) we would still blow leads from time to time. I'm not trying to be down on the young guys. But making up stuff isn't a very good way to make a point.

Doesn't matter what actually happens when you have blinders on. Most the malcontents were Fire Sloan before they shifted into a Fire Ty crowd, and were Free CJ before they were Free Burks. People with no basketball knowledge have delusions of grandeur in thinking the Jazz would be a fourth seed or better without Corbin. They probably also think they're highway engineers and the folks building bridges should be replaced by the next group, who should be fired too.

A few on here don't like things about Corbin for valid theoretical preferences, but they're few and far between.

 

[Brown Notes]

The run was started with the core starters in the game. The bench continued it for sure, but they were cold from Ty's dumbass substitution patterns.

Hard for me to swallow the notion that bench players need to warm up to have a positive impact. I'm also pretty sure that there wasn't much deviation from Ty's regular 3rd quarter rotations. Blaming the early 4th quarter on something that happened or didn't in the 2nd doesn't make any sense either.

The 3rd was pretty much a wash overall, the starters gained 1 point after going up and down a bit. Tinsley had a couple uncharacteristic turnovers late, I assume that's what you mean by the starters letting them back in it. When Watson and Burks came in Utah was up 17.

I guess I'm having a difficult time getting your point. All I can get out of what you're saying is "Ty is a dumbass, therefore so are all his substitutions."

 

[MoreFeasts]

Hard for me to swallow the notion that bench players need to warm up to have a positive impact.

That's not the point. The issue is this: Does someone play better when they are cold, or warmed up?

 

[LunaticWolf]

That's not the point. The issue is this: Does someone play better when they are cold, or warmed up?

Such a cop out.

 

[Ellipse]

Hard for me to swallow the notion that bench players need to warm up to have a positive impact. I'm also pretty sure that there wasn't much deviation from Ty's regular 3rd quarter rotations. Blaming the early 4th quarter on something that happened or didn't in the 2nd doesn't make any sense either.

The 3rd was pretty much a wash overall, the starters gained 1 point after going up and down a bit. Tinsley had a couple uncharacteristic turnovers late, I assume that's what you mean by the starters letting them back in it. When Watson and Burks came in Utah was up 17.

I guess I'm having a difficult time getting your point. All I can get out of what you're saying is "Ty is a dumbass, therefore so are all his substitutions."

Ty is a dumbass. Burks and Watson are a disaster in the backcourt; Burks and Tinsley or Burks and Foye seem to work very well. And it wasn't Kanter who was responsible for the 20-2 run by the Wizards, since none of the wings even let him touch the ball. Ty needed to sub to kill the bleeding and pulling Watson was needed. I don't even mind him pulling Burks or Favors, but Kanter was playing a much better game than Al and he should have got at least 5 more minutes of playing time.



Corbin's Mind -- Where panic happens.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

It isn't true, Nate and Candrew are completely fabricating the nature of the Wiz's late run. What really happened was the bench had a sloppy stretch in the 4th and the Wizards made a nice run out of it.

Corbin brought the starters back in minus Marvin, they settled down and sealed the game.

Thanks, I figured as much.

 

[GVC]

Read my earlier post. The bench blew the lead last night, but since that doesn't fit certain agendas it's time to change the facts.

They also built the lead in the second. Take a look at the +/- for the game. On a per minute basis, the bench and starters were about even.

For the season, however, the Jazz bench outscores their opponents, while Jazz starters are outscored by their opponents.

 

[Zombie]

This board suffers from Corbin Derangement Syndrome. If you take a realistic look at our roster compared to other Western conference teams we are right about where we should be, and trending upwards. I'm not saying there's not room for improvement, but for christ's sake people get a grip.

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

This board suffers from Corbin Derangement Syndrome. If you take a realistic look at our roster compared to other Western conference teams we are right about where we should be, and trending upwards. I'm not saying there's not room for improvement, but for christ's sake people get a grip.

I'm a Corbin hater and can agree with this to a degree but when the King of all Morons sits Favors in favor of Jefferson on a clear defensive possession, up one, with under five seconds left in a game, multiple times, there's a major problem. The plane has crashed into the mountain and Corbin was asleep at the ****ing helm.

 

[Ellipse]

This board suffers from Corbin Derangement Syndrome. If you take a realistic look at our roster compared to other Western conference teams we are right about where we should be, and trending upwards. I'm not saying there's not room for improvement, but for christ's sake people get a grip.

So when the bench hits the floor for the first time in the game, the score was tied. Eight minutes later the Jazz are up 15 and rolling, then Corbin -- for no damn reason other than 'just cuz' puts the starters back in to finish the half, and the starters take a -1 +/- into the locker room at the half. But you go ahead and sing the praise of Tyrone Corbin; sing it long and loud and maybe some of us will ignore what we see and believe what we hear.

 

[LunaticWolf]

then Corbin -- for no damn reason other than 'just cuz' puts the starters back in to finish the half

Maybe it is because, *GASP* the other team is putting in their starters?

 

[Ellipse]

Maybe it is because, *GASP* the other team is putting in their starters?

And your point? The bench wasn't faltering or even slowing; they were killing the Wizards ... and John Wall was in the game the whole time it was happening.

 

[Brown Notes]

They also built the lead in the second. Take a look at the +/- for the game. On a per minute basis, the bench and starters were about even.

For the season, however, the Jazz bench outscores their opponents, while Jazz starters are outscored by their opponents.

Yea, they did. Good job on them for that. Also Al was terrible in the 1st half. Neither of these things are disputed. Obviously there are very good reasons to second guess Ty's court time distribution. It's not necessary to fabricate false statements to support that view.

 

[Zombie]

So when the bench hits the floor for the first time in the game, the score was tied. Eight minutes later the Jazz are up 15 and rolling, then Corbin -- for no damn reason other than 'just cuz' puts the starters back in to finish the half, and the starters take a -1 +/- into the locker room at the half. But you go ahead and sing the praise of Tyrone Corbin; sing it long and loud and maybe some of us will ignore what we see and believe what we hear.

Where am I "singing his praises"? I'm not saying he should be coach of year or anything, but the way people talk around here you'd think we were in the cellar of the league. I'm not a fan of armchair experts or whiners so maybe that's why it rubs me the wrong way. God forbid the Jazz ever have a really awful season someday, if they think this team is poorly coached imagine what this place would be like if we ever win less than 20 games in a season, it will be apocalyptic.

*edit* For the record, I also have not been a fan of Ty's substitutions in general this season, but the fact remains we are winning games, and considering he is a first time coach he gets some leeway (and patience) from me. Some people around here can criticize without blowing things out of proportion, others though...not so much.

 

[Zombie]

I'm a Corbin hater and can agree with this to a degree but when the King of all Morons sits Favors in favor of Jefferson on a clear defensive possession, up one, with under five seconds left in a game, multiple times, there's a major problem. The plane has crashed into the mountain and Corbin was asleep at the ****ing helm.

This is the kind of Corbin hate that makes me roll my eyes. Once again, reading this post an outsider would think the Jazz were losing games left and right.

 

[billyshelby]

Finally caught up and I actually thought we played a better game against Washington than Cleveland. The offense is definitely playing better. We still don't get easy shots at the rim like the old Jazz, but there's more cutters and the flex cuts have actually been producing shots (as opposed to the convoluted way we set the post.) We can build on these games.

 

[billyshelby]

I'm sure someone has pointed this out, but the schedule gods really helped us. Not only do we get this weird stretch where we play like 4 games in 10 nights, but we play several terrible defensive teams in a row. Like getting a chance to work out the kinks against inept teams (although Washington honestly didn't look bad on D.) LA shouldn't put up too much resistance, either. I'll be very interested to see how we play against Indy.

 

[billyshelby]

I see lots of angst about Ty's minutes. I had no problem with it. My only complaint was not calling a TO a little quicker in the 4th. The offense was flailing. A TO to call a play would have been nice. But otherwise, the second unit flopped in the 2nd half and bringing in the starters made sense to me.

 

[franklin]

I'm a Corbin hater and can agree with this to a degree but when the King of all Morons sits Favors in favor of Jefferson on a clear defensive possession, up one, with under five seconds left in a game, multiple times, there's a major problem. The plane has crashed into the mountain and Corbin was asleep at the ****ing helm.

Valid criticism. This is where I start thinking Corbin was hired specifically by management with the understanding that he wouldn't change anything Sloan, including set-rotations-don't-make-kids-get-paranoid notion. It's Jazz tradition and that's all that matters, you know.

Finally caught up and I actually thought we played a better game against Washington than Cleveland. The offense is definitely playing better. We still don't get easy shots at the rim like the old Jazz, but there's more cutters and the flex cuts have actually been producing shots (as opposed to the convoluted way we set the post.) We can build on these games.

If Jerry Sloan couldn't figure a way to handle this with Jefferson then noone will. Sloan ran more PnR with him but he also had DWill. This is where I'm encouraged by Hayward's growth (which Corbin has specifically stated as one of his goals in Hayward PnR development). It's also why I want Jefferson gone.

On the flip side, maybe their stats show Jeffyball combined with transition D is a pretty solid bet. I can't deny that his misses are easy to defend against.

I'll be very interested to see how we play against Indy.

True, but I have it in the loss column. Hibbert-West takes away the edge Jazz have had against lesser interior teams (like Miami of them all!).

 

[billyshelby]

Is Hayward growing?

As for Jeffyball, the dramatic increase in guys cutting to the basket gives me hope.

As for the "convoluted flex cuts" (my term), I'm not hopeful they will continue to work. I don't like our offense. Against young/disorganized teams like the Cavs and Wizards, Ty's O has looked very fluid. I expect painful regression when we play teams like Indy, but I hope I'm wrong and this stretch of rest and cupcakes will be the start of something.