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Favors the odd man out

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franklin

Well-Known Member
Favors is getting schooled in every facet of the game. He's even more of a liability on the offensive end as Jefferson is on D.

Corbin needs to give up on this silly offensive development experiment. It's maddening watching Favors attempt to dribble. The FO should either accept that he's a defender with little offensive upside a la Noah/Chandler/Camby or the Jazz must trade him before his value plummets.

Embarrassing PnR, can't guard the post -- another run of the mill defensive "athletic" big about to get paid way more than he's worth. No need to get DeAndre'd. Please shop him KO'Lindsey.
 
franklin said:
Favors is getting schooled in every facet of the game. He's even more of a liability on the offensive end as Jefferson is on D.

Corbin needs to give up on this silly offensive development experiment. It's maddening watching Favors attempt to dribble. The FO should either accept that he's a defender with little offensive upside a la Noah/Chandler/Camby or the Jazz must trade him before his value plummets.

Embarrassing PnR, can't guard the post -- another run of the mill defensive "athletic" big about to get paid way more than he's worth. No need to get DeAndre'd. Please shop him KO'Lindsey.
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ok? do you watch games? Every time Favors plays, the Jazz outscore their opponents. He is less of a liability than Al is. If they are going to trade him, I think they should at least play him a full year at 30+ minutes per game to see what we are working with.
 
franklin said:
Favors is getting schooled in every facet of the game. He's even more of a liability on the offensive end as Jefferson is on D.

Corbin needs to give up on this silly offensive development experiment. It's maddening watching Favors attempt to dribble. The FO should either accept that he's a defender with little offensive upside a la Noah/Chandler/Camby or the Jazz must trade him before his value plummets.

Embarrassing PnR, can't guard the post -- another run of the mill defensive "athletic" big about to get paid way more than he's worth. No need to get DeAndre'd. Please shop him KO'Lindsey.
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Sadly, I can't disagree with this, but if it's maddening to watch Favors dribble, how does it feel to watch Hayward lose the ball time and time again? That's madness!
 
Even assuming he gains no further offensive skills (at 21), he still projects to be an elite defensive player. You do not shop those guys unless you get a haul. Noah and Chandler are both previous all stars, you saw what happen to Dallas when they let Chandler walk - roughly a 20 game swing in wins and losses the next year.
 
YB85 said:
Sadly, I can't disagree with this, but if it's maddening to watch Favors dribble, how does it feel to watch Hayward lose the ball time and time again? That's madness!
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At least he no longer runs to the sideline, jump, and turn hoping someone is open to pass to.

I like Favors, I want the Jazz to get something for him. He's easily replaceable in net production, especially for the future price.
 
franklin said:
At least he no longer runs to the sideline, jump, and turn hoping someone is open to pass to.

I like Favors, I want the Jazz to get something for him. He's easily replaceable in net production, especially for the future price.
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If you think Favors is so replaceable, tell me when the last time the Jazz had a player who was so good defensively? The last time I can remember was Mark Eaton, and he retired in like 94. A defensive player the caliber of Noah and Chandler is not simply replaced. Seriously. Just look at the teams they are on. The Bulls are a perennial contender (when rose is healthy) the Knicks finally look like a good team, and the Mavs only won a title when they got Chandler. The only other guy as good as them defensively is Dwight Howard, and he is not that great offensively either. If Favors turns out to be 80% of what Dwight Howard used to be, then we will be well on our way to a championship.
 
ULsI8.jpg


Go home Franklin. You're drunk.
 
b_liner1 said:
A defensive player the caliber of Noah and Chandler is not simply replaced. Seriously.
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Agreed.

Favors is no Noah or Chandler -- he can't guard the post. He's a DeAndre/Ibaka type, and you have to keep a Perkins around just to make up for their lack of post defense. You don't keep one way players on the roster unless their dominance on one end is so impactful that it dwarfs the other end, or you have no replacement alternatives.

I said he is replaceable in net production, meaning contributions from both ends of the floor. There are plenty of bigs to be had every summer.
 
franklin said:
Agreed.

Favors is no Noah or Chandler -- he can't guard the post. He's a DeAndre/Ibaka type, and you have to keep a Perkins around just to make up for their lack of post defense. You don't keep one way players on the roster unless their dominance on one end is so impactful that it dwarfs the other end, or you have no replacement alternatives.

I said he is replaceable in net production, meaning contributions from both ends of the floor. There are plenty of bigs to be had every summer.
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I guess I am seeing what you are saying more now. In your original post on the thread, you said that they should accept that he is a defensive anchor ala Noah and Chandler. I do agree that if they are not going to give him that type of role, then they ought to get something for him while he still has value. I do believe however that he can be productive if he had a coach that knew how to run an offense. I think he can be used in the high pick and roll, he can pass out of the post, and he can get a lot of put backs. If that leads him to 12-15 points a game, and he turns in the DPOY that we have hoped for, then he will be fantastic. He has to be used correctly though, and Corbin is not the coach to do that, and this team as presently constructed, is not ideal for Favors to shine.
 
Would you guys have traded Favors for the 5th pick last year? (i.e., and picking up Lillard in the process)
 
b_liner1 said:
If you think Favors is so replaceable, tell me when the last time the Jazz had a player who was so good defensively? The last time I can remember was Mark Eaton, and he retired in like 94. A defensive player the caliber of Noah and Chandler is not simply replaced. Seriously. Just look at the teams they are on. The Bulls are a perennial contender (when rose is healthy) the Knicks finally look like a good team, and the Mavs only won a title when they got Chandler. The only other guy as good as them defensively is Dwight Howard, and he is not that great offensively either. If Favors turns out to be 80% of what Dwight Howard used to be, then we will be well on our way to a championship.
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The last time we had that good of a defensive player? Well...we did have this guy called Andre Kirilenko play for us a couple years back. Remember him? He was pretty decent at defense.

Oh and Favors isn't as good defensively as those guys...yet. He has the potential to be that good, but we'll see what happens.
 
Hal said:
The last time we had that good of a defensive player? Well...we did have this guy called Andre Kirilenko play for us a couple years back. Remember him? He was pretty decent at defense.

Oh and Favors isn't as good defensively as those guys...yet. He has the potential to be that good, but we'll see what happens.
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I guess I should have said defensive big. Kirilenko was dang good at defense, but a different kind of defender than Favors. Favors can shut down the paint. AK could shut down wings one on one. I think Favors is as good a defender as the guys listed above, but we have a terrible coach, and terrible team defense. Thibs in Chicago is the best D coach there is, and he even makes Boozer a better defender. If we had a coach half that good on defense, we would see Favors potential more. I blame a lot of Favors non development on the coaching and the fact that he is not getting the minutes he deserves. He should be averaging the same as Millsap and Jefferson. (I know he is now, but that is because Kanter is out)
 
The OP has to be joking/trolling - because I don't think anyone with 7k+ posts on a Jazz message board could be that ignorant about their team.
 
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If the Jazz had a point guard or if they had a scorer who could create his own offense, Favors would be the guy who crashes the offensive boards and cleans up, or takes a pass in the lane and goes straight to the hoop. He is a guy who needs to be set up, basically a 3rd or 4th option. If he gets the ball going to the rim, he draws a foul about half the time, scores about 25% of the time, and screws up somehow the other 25%.

I haven't really looked at whether he's a good post defender in single coverage or not. Are you saying he doesn't move well laterally?

My feeling is that worst-case scenario he's still an impact player. Anyone remember Brian Grant with the Portland Trailblazers during the late 90s?
 
I think the odd man out is Millsap. He can't defend length. He can't defend speed. His offensive game hasn't been going for him much this year. Faried kicked his rear last night.
 
Catchall said:
If the Jazz had a point guard or if they had a scorer who could create his own offense, Favors would be the guy who crashes the offensive boards and cleans up, or takes a pass in the lane and goes straight to the hoop. He is a guy who needs to be set up, basically a 3rd or 4th option. If he gets the ball going to the rim, he draws a foul about half the time, scores about 25% of the time, and screws up somehow the other 25%.

I haven't really looked at whether he's a good post defender in single coverage or not. Are you saying he doesn't move well laterally?

My feeling is that worst-case scenario he's still an impact player. Anyone remember Brian Grant with the Portland Trailblazers during the late 90s?
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That's a really clever comp. You're basically describing Jordan/Ibaka with a solid outside shot. I've been thinking/hoping he can become Camby someday, but Grant seems to be a better prototype.

I'm saying he gets mowed over in the post by stronger players. They go right at him and he can't do anything but put up his hands like a college player or Euro as he goes back on his heels.
 
franklin said:
That's a really clever comp. You're basically describing Jordan/Ibaka with a solid outside shot. I've been thinking/hoping he can become Camby someday, but Grant seems to be a better prototype.

I'm saying he gets mowed over in the post by stronger players. They go right at him and he can't do anything but put up his hands like a college player or Euro as he goes back on his heels.
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Favors is a good defender out on the floor, though. Maybe Kanter should be the primary post defender.
 
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