Favors the odd man out

[gregbroncs]

I am LMAO at this thread. Just to stupid to be anything more than a joke.

 

[orangello]

I think the odd man out is Millsap. He can't defend length. He can't defend speed. His offensive game hasn't been going for him much this year. Faried kicked his rear last night.

He looked really bad last night.

 

[ONE LOVE]

A month with Malone, hell even a day or night (no pun) would give the man a better insight.

The man said Mo is not a PG and said Burks has more potential at PG at the beginning of the season.

The guy's legit.

 

[D Will Texas]

Who would you rather have Faried or Favors

I think it's close

 

[ONE LOVE]

I think it's close

Nah, Favors is much better. It's playing behind Al and Sap, and being yelled at by Ty that's zapping his energy and enthusiasm.

 

[David Stern]

I think it's close

Favors. He's got a much higher ceiling, and Faried actually plays with some dang good guards

 

[gregbroncs]

Stats from NBA.com

Stat-------Favors--------Jefferson
FG%----.483-------.489
PPG-----9.5------17.5
shots per game------7.35--------15.75
Free throws per game------3.51---------2.76
MPG-----22.8--------32.9
RPG-----6.9--------9.1
SPG------.8-------1
APG-------1--------2.1
BPG-------1.6------1.2
.
These stats make Jefferson look better offensively and Favors far better defensively. But break it down to account for minutes while keeping in mind that the offense is ran through Jefferson and rarely through Favors and they are not as favorable to Jefferson.
.
Per 36 minutes
.
Stat------Favors-----Jefferson
Points-----15-----19.2
FGA-----11.6-----17.2
Rebounds-----10.9-----10
Assists-----1.6-----3.3
Steals-----1.3-----1.1
Blocks-----2.5-----1.3
.
Other relevant stats.
points per FGA-----1.29-----1.11
Points per FGA counting Free throws as half an attempt-----1.04-----1.02 This is a stat I used because I don't know how to tell if it's a missed shot on a foul or an and one.
.
So while Jefferson scores more and assists more he does almost nothing except pass better on offense. He also Takes a crap load more shots to score more and has the ball in his hands a lot more often on offense than Favors does. Especially if Favors and Jefferson are on the floor together.

 

[franklin]

Favors is a good defender out on the floor, though. Maybe Kanter should be the primary post defender.

Two centers in the stretch four era though?

& I'm great with Favors-Kanter granted Kanter becomes a top-6ish big. My question is more focused on team building than anything -- I think Favors a) has value that can get a good return, and b) is very replacable in context of a. Total return.

 

[jope]

meh. Not seeing what you're seeing.

Defensively he is clearly a stud

--DEFENSE--

Best d-rating on the team (102)
he has as many defensive Win Shares as paul millsap in 500(!) less minutes played...
He has a VERY High BLK% (5.5%, good for [by far] the best on the team, and 5th in NBA [just behind Tim Duncan, Roy Hibbert, Ibaka, and Sanders])
He has the highest TotalREB% and REB Rate on the team. (17.7%, good for 13th in the NBA, and 11 rebs/36 min)
Has 2nd highest DefREB% on team (23.5%, good for 20th in NBA)

-------Offense------
He is fairly effective for how low his usage is (only 20.9%)
He shoots basically the same % as al (48.5% compared to 48.9%) yet attempts far more free throws (2.5 more per 36 mins played, 5.5 total in that span)
He has a good OffREB% (12.1%, 16th in NBA) which is crucial for creating more scoring opportunites.
Per36 he's at 15 pts on 11 shots, compared to Al's 19 pts on 17 shots.

----Cons-----

Fouls, (kind of a lot, Not enough to eject per 36 however)
Turnovers (will come down when his Offensive fouling comes down)
AST% (been looking a lot better 2nd half of season)


Look... I know, He totally not as good at shooting a lot like Al. He will never be a player like that. and that's GOOD for this team. We don't want someone to take 20 shots a game to inefficiently get 20 points. Obviously that isnt working out so well for us. It has been shown multiple times over multiple seasons that on the rare occasion that we get everyone ample shooting opportunities, we score big. Much bigger than depending on 1 guy to carry the scoring load.


Saying he is as offensively deficient as Al is defensively makes no sense. With average starter minutes, just by his Rebounding skills and FT drawing ability Derrick can Avg 12-15 pts in this league, TODAY. Not to mention at least 10 rebs and 2 swats a game. he has about 5-6 more years until he's even reached his prime.


IMO it would be a mistake to trade him now.

 

[Sandy Braille]

Wasn't franklin the dude who made the Kwame Kanter thread-- talking about how we should trade Kanter while he still has some trade value-- only to have Kanter whoop *** a couple weeks after its conception???


franklin is onto something. Keep up the threads, frank. +4.

 

[Weezur]

I'm pretty down on Favors this year.
Favors was the big big piece in that Deron deal-
Recall that the fact that we got Kanter was lucky (We went from 6th pick to 3rd)

Favors needs to be better to justify that deal as it was constructed.

EDIT- Ehhh forgot about Deron not signing back with us anyways.

 

[NAOS]

Lulz

 

[Ben10]

21 years old.


that is all

 

[NUMBERICA]

Quick hitters:

-We still haven't seen what Favors can do when asked to be relied upon consistently. The times that he's had to stand in for a starter, he has done exceptionally well.
-Big athletes that have good simple instincts and won't blooper their teams out of games aren't common. When it comes to the only thing even close to a defensive keystone, replacing their net contribution is not easy. At all.
-He's still young. And he hasn't played that many minutes (go back to point one).
-He's not strictly a center and neither is Kanter. Worrying about the issue of playing two centers in the stretch four era would be valid if neither big could guard out on the floor and neither big could do anything outside of the paint. The Grizzlies seem to be doing okay despite having at least one of these problems (and have it badly). It also wasn't long ago that Gasol and Bynum were a nightmare matchup.
-Swinging off the idea that post-players are a dying breed: why would Favors supposed inability to guard the post (which is exceedingly overplayed by OP) such a big deal? Favors is most suited to guard whoever's most likely to drag a big out on the floor anyway, and Kanter (or Al, or Memo RIP) should be just find guarding one of the 5 guys left in the NBA that you can worry about.
-I don't think Favors' value league-wide is very high. And what does he get you anyway?

I wish he was showing more stuff, too. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. I cannot emphasize the first point enough.

 

[b_line]

Quick hitters:

-We still haven't seen what Favors can do when asked to be relied upon consistently. The times that he's had to stand in for a starter, he has done exceptionally well.
-Big athletes that have good simple instincts and won't blooper their teams out of games aren't common. When it comes to the only thing even close to a defensive keystone, replacing their net contribution is not easy. At all.
-He's still young. And he hasn't played that many minutes (go back to point one).
-He's not strictly a center and neither is Kanter. Worrying about the issue of playing two centers in the stretch four era would be valid if neither big could guard out on the floor and neither big could do anything outside of the paint. The Grizzlies seem to be doing okay despite having at least one of these problems (and have it badly). It also wasn't long ago that Gasol and Bynum were a nightmare matchup.
-Swinging off the idea that post-players are a dying breed: why would Favors supposed inability to guard the post (which is exceedingly overplayed by OP) such a big deal? Favors is most suited to guard whoever's most likely to drag a big out on the floor anyway, and Kanter (or Al, or Memo RIP) should be just find guarding one of the 5 guys left in the NBA that you can worry about.
-I don't think Favors' value league-wide is very high. And what does he get you anyway?

I wish he was showing more stuff, too. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. I cannot emphasize the first point enough.

Basically exhausted the argument in favor of favors. Haha. Thanks for doing us all a favor!

 

[DutchJazzer]

Favors is getting schooled in every facet of the game. He's even more of a liability on the offensive end as Jefferson is on D.

Corbin needs to give up on this silly offensive development experiment. It's maddening watching Favors attempt to dribble. The FO should either accept that he's a defender with little offensive upside a la Noah/Chandler/Camby or the Jazz must trade him before his value plummets.

Embarrassing PnR, can't guard the post -- another run of the mill defensive "athletic" big about to get paid way more than he's worth. No need to get DeAndre'd. Please shop him KO'Lindsey.

favors is light years ahead on pick and roll offense than al jefferson will ever be.

give me pick and roll(team) basketball over than dump it down to al(non team orientated) alsketball

 

[franklin]

Wasn't franklin the dude who made the Kwame Kanter thread-- talking about how we should trade Kanter while he still has some trade value-- only to have Kanter whoop *** a couple weeks after its conception???


franklin is onto something. Keep up the threads, frank. +4.

Your fallacy aside...

Do you honestly believe Favors is going to magically alter his game after three years into the league. Dude cannot score on his own. Dude is terrible in PnR. What is it about fans that makes them believe these guys will insert completely new physical-mental skillsets into their games that they fail miserably at? Favors cannot dribble through traffic and is not going to become a PnR threat. It is not inside of him.

 

[franklin]

Quick hitters:

-We still haven't seen what Favors can do when asked to be relied upon consistently. The times that he's had to stand in for a starter, he has done exceptionally well.
-Big athletes that have good simple instincts and won't blooper their teams out of games aren't common. When it comes to the only thing even close to a defensive keystone, replacing their net contribution is not easy. At all.
-He's still young. And he hasn't played that many minutes (go back to point one).
-He's not strictly a center and neither is Kanter. Worrying about the issue of playing two centers in the stretch four era would be valid if neither big could guard out on the floor and neither big could do anything outside of the paint. The Grizzlies seem to be doing okay despite having at least one of these problems (and have it badly). It also wasn't long ago that Gasol and Bynum were a nightmare matchup.
-Swinging off the idea that post-players are a dying breed: why would Favors supposed inability to guard the post (which is exceedingly overplayed by OP) such a big deal? Favors is most suited to guard whoever's most likely to drag a big out on the floor anyway, and Kanter (or Al, or Memo RIP) should be just find guarding one of the 5 guys left in the NBA that you can worry about.
-I don't think Favors' value league-wide is very high. And what does he get you anyway?

I wish he was showing more stuff, too. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. I cannot emphasize the first point enough.

Silliness from top to bottom. Homerism at its best.

 

[Biggs]

So you want to give up a 21 year old, who is already the Jazz best defensive player, but keep Millsap and Al? IF you want to keep Al for offense, I can buy that. However Millsap isn't a starter on a great team. Undersized, bad defensive player, and his rebounding disappears. He has a pretty good jumpshot, but I as a fan want to go in another direction. I think Favors can become Chandler, and that is a damn good player.

 

[mfree]

Teams who trade players like Favors end up like the Clippers a few years back. They continue to get high draft picks because they suck every year, but they are always looking for the next big star and they never stick with a plan long enough to see it succeed.

The guy is immensely talented and still growing up.... Take a deep breath!