What's new
By:

The Official "Ask A Mormon" Thread

Actually, lets read what's written there:

"Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely eI will do it; wherefore give me thine honor."

Most read that as "Yo, I should do it. I'm the man, I will fix it all. I want to do that. Let ME have all the glory"

But forget who said it, and whatever pre-concieved notion we've been handed. Infact, imagine this as the apostle Paul saying it. In that light it could it not be read:

"Dad... bro. I'm here. Let me act as your son. I think I can bring back everyone.. all that we love so dearly. Do me the honor of allowing me to do the heavy lifting for you"
 
ElRoach0 said:
"Rebelled" is often a term for "there's a disagreement". And who knows what was or wasn't lost in translation.

Moreover, man is as God once was, God is as man might be. Which means we share traits.. he's like us, not some infallible being out there. Which means you can make a profile of his behavior, thoughts, and actions.

Knowing that this is the same guy that flooded the earth, and destroyed whole cities for exercising his own plan(free agency), are you sure it's so unbelievable that there might have been a stretch of the truth here or there?

Heck, put all that aside. After who knows how many thousands of years, don't you think any father would want to repair his relationship with his son instead of keep up a full time war?
Click to expand...

Exactly. You want to use that as a basis for an arguement that God just threw him out because he didnt toe the line. OK fine.

Also he is not like us. We are like him. Yes one can argue it either way but my point is is that while we have some of his traits, he is perfect while we are not. Infallible is exactly what we are talking about here. it seems I beleive that and you do not. If that is the case and you think he is not perfect then of course that leads to all sorts of doubt and speculation.

Also who says he didn't try to keep his relationship. Maybe Satan rejected hsi plan and tried to take over the throne.

It all boils down to I trust in my Lord and you do not. Do not mistake that for me not having questions. It just means I trust that He has a reason.
 
ElRoach0 said:
Actually, lets read what's written there:

"Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely eI will do it; wherefore give me thine honor."

Most read that as "Yo, I should do it. I'm the man, I will fix it all. I want to do that. Let ME have all the glory"

But forget who said it, and whatever pre-concieved notion we've been handed. Infact, imagine this as the apostle Paul saying it. In that light it could it not be read:

"Dad... bro. I'm here. Let me act as your son. I think I can bring back everyone.. all that we love so dearly. Do me the honor of allowing me to do the heavy lifting for you"
Click to expand...

I get that but then it was explained how he would bring everyone back and that defeated the whole purpose. Satan wanted to save us all be removing personal choice and that right there is the rub. Take that away and the whole thing is pointless.

I truly do believe it started out as you are implying. But I do not think it was:

Satan: I can save every one!

God: No! BE GONE FOREVER!!!

It was way more complex than that.
 
One Brow said:
So, you'd be OK with your wife being married to several other men in addition to you?
Click to expand...

I think this was essentially answered regarding an earlier question. Our reaction now to certain information will be vastly different once we cross over.
 
Stoked said:
I will grant you that a mission is not for every one and some would be better off in college or elsewhere. However maybe that kid wants something different than you in life. Did that kid return from his mission to attend a college?

As for a net positive. That man dedicated, on his and his families dime, two years of his life to help others and spread something that has brought him profound joy in his life. I only wish more kids had that level of dedication, willingness to serve others and sense of responsibility when they were 19 (now 18).

To be honest I see them both as net positives for society and him. It is not like he turned down college to join the circus. He is dedicating two years to his fellow man. That is a deeply profound thing.
Click to expand...

As a man that went on a mission.. what made you go?

When I was of that age, or round abouts, the big line was "Every able young man should go". Everyone that I knew my age was expected to go. Growing up, people looked at those who didn't go differently.. negatively. Even if it was for a good reason like they had a scholarship, or the family just didn't have the money to support that(sad, but it's a good reason not to go). The pressure was on.. Your bishop was after you from the age of 16 on. It actually started at 14 for me.

There's always the expectation and social push to get you to go to church. Especially as a young man.. they needed someone to bless/serve the sacrament. But at 16, every time I showed my face at a function of any time, "You ready for your mission?" was the first thing on someone's lips. At 18 it felt like people would hunt me down at the store to ask me the same thing. These are men that you love and respect. People you've listened to talks from in Sacrament meeting. People you've heard bear their souls during priesthood meeting. People you've listened to all your life share testimony every first Sunday of the month. Constantly hounding you to do something you're not even sure benefits, as global society as a whole seems to mock missionaries more than anything else.

So, I ask again. Did you really go because you wanted to share the joy in your heart? Or did you go because "that was the social expectation"?

I didn't go because I don't need anyone to tell me I'm doing the right thing. I only need to feel like I'm doing the right thing.
 
Stoked said:
Exactly. You want to use that as a basis for an arguement that God just threw him out because he didnt toe the line. OK fine.

Also he is not like us. We are like him. Yes one can argue it either way but my point is is that while we have some of his traits, he is perfect while we are not. Infallible is exactly what we are talking about here. it seems I beleive that and you do not. If that is the case and you think he is not perfect then of course that leads to all sorts of doubt and speculation.

Also who says he didn't try to keep his relationship. Maybe Satan rejected hsi plan and tried to take over the throne.

It all boils down to I trust in my Lord and you do not. Do not mistake that for me not having questions. It just means I trust that He has a reason.
Click to expand...

If he's so perfect, why has he historically shown such frustration with his own plan of free agency? So much as to destroy entire civilizations? The fact that one third of heaven and Lucifer disagreeing in the first place is proof that he's not perfect, as if he were, he would have created only those that are perfect, and would agree all the time.

Also arguable, and a good point now that we're talking about it, if there was no free agency in heaven, how did Lucifer rebell? or even disagree?

I'm not saying God's the bad guy here. I'm really not. I'm saying his plan is not perfect, nor was it meant to be. The fact that his plan isn't perfect has been validated by him on multiple occasions. It's completely ok not to be perfect. We're here to strive to be that, just the same as I'm sure he does.
 
ElRoach0 said:
As a man that went on a mission.. what made you go?

When I was of that age, or round abouts, the big line was "Every able young man should go". Everyone that I knew my age was expected to go. Growing up, people looked at those who didn't go differently.. negatively. Even if it was for a good reason like they had a scholarship, or the family just didn't have the money to support that(sad, but it's a good reason not to go). The pressure was on.. Your bishop was after you from the age of 16 on. It actually started at 14 for me.

There's always the expectation and social push to get you to go to church. Especially as a young man.. they needed someone to bless/serve the sacrament. But at 16, every time I showed my face at a function of any time, "You ready for your mission?" was the first thing on someone's lips. At 18 it felt like people would hunt me down at the store to ask me the same thing. These are men that you love and respect. People you've listened to talks from in Sacrament meeting. People you've heard bear their souls during priesthood meeting. People you've listened to all your life share testimony every first Sunday of the month. Constantly hounding you to do something you're not even sure benefits, as global society as a whole seems to mock missionaries more than anything else.

So, I ask again. Did you really go because you wanted to share the joy in your heart? Or did you go because "that was the social expectation"?

I didn't go because I don't need anyone to tell me I'm doing the right thing. I only need to feel like I'm doing the right thing.
Click to expand...

Are young men pushed to go? Of course they are.

As for me specifically it was explained what possible benefits were but it was made very clear that it is my choice and I needed to do what is best for me. By both my father and my bishop. So for a while I was on the fence and I was not sure what to do. I finally decided at 19 1/2 to go.

I was the first to go on a misison in my ward (outside of Utah) in about 8 years.
 
Scat said:
I think this was essentially answered regarding an earlier question. Our reaction now to certain information will be vastly different once we cross over.
Click to expand...
This is a good response. What about dinosaurs? Lots of stuff that will be answered that we don't get now. But none of that stuff is super critical so I don't spend time thinking about it.
 
CONAN said:
This is a good response. What about dinosaurs? Lots of stuff that will be answered that we don't get now. But none of that stuff is super critical so I don't spend time thinking about it.
Click to expand...

I agree that you do not need to spend time worrying about it but I see no harm in asking and wanting to know.
 
Scat said:
I think this was essentially answered regarding an earlier question. Our reaction now to certain information will be vastly different once we cross over.
Click to expand...

I sort of like the euphemism of "crossing over" though it does sort of remind me of Charon and the River Styx
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page
Back
Top