Traveling to america

[LogGrad98]

Aren't they supposed to check randomly? If that is the case how can you blame them for checking an old lady?

And if we announce to the world we're not checking old ladies and infants it opens a pretty big door for anyone planning an attack.

It's not about applying the rules, it's about the legitimateness of the practical appearance of those rules.

security theather

That's just it, the standards and methods are woefully inadequate. If someone is determined to get a bomb on a plane the random security checks are not going to stop them. Do you think that the security checks in general are a secret? They know exactly how we look for contraband and what exactly we are looking for. Showing them we are going to check old ladies and babies in an effort to "keep them on their toes" is ludicrous. I seriously doubt there is a single terrorist cell in the world that had a conversation even remotely like this:

Terrorist 1: "Ok our 5 year plan to get a baby and an old lady, then load them up with explosives and roll them onto the plane is almost complete. No one will ever suspect since they obviously won't check old women and babies. It is brilliant!"
Terrorist 2: "Hang on, look at what I just saw on google. They check old ladies and babies. NOOOOOO!!"
Terrorist 1: "Drats, foiled again!"

I just don't think the terrorists are that dumb that what the TSA is doing is functioning as any real deterrent at all. The TSA methods at airports are just short of being a complete joke.

To Dutch's point, interesting quick read about the man who first mentioned "security theater":

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/03/29/how-to-fix-airport-security/

 

[DutchJazzer]

My Suggestion: Don't.

why?
because we should be afraid of governments?
or governments should fear the people?

 

[DutchJazzer]

also all this cost MONEY.

money you guys pay for

 

[DutchJazzer]

 

[LogGrad98]

What is interesting about that is not that it in some ways hits home, after all it was written to hit home on purpose, not hard to do. But rather that it ignores the constant human rights violations within dictatorships (no US President has killed 50 million of his own people, ala Stalin, or even, really, any of his own people like that) and tries to spin the political issues in America to make them look far far worse than they really are. Of course everyone knows this.

America is not perfect, and I don't think anyone would purport it to be, definitely not anyone on this forum. The thing that makes America great, imho, is that the potential exists, really exists, in writing but also in practice, for the populace to influence the political environment. Even that potentiality, whether fully realized or not, lifts America above most nations, as most other nations, by the very nature of their political systems, are effectively, and often transparently and obdurately, closed off to any real political influence by the populace short of open rebellion. That same potential may be claimed or aspired to or propagandized, may even be outwardly manifest in some regard, but in reality, in practice, it doesn't exist at all.

 

[DutchJazzer]

What is interesting about that is not that it in some ways hits home, after all it was written to hit home on purpose, not hard to do. But rather that it ignores the constant human rights violations within dictatorships (no US President has killed 50 million of his own people, ala Stalin, or even, really, any of his own people like that) and tries to spin the political issues in America to make them look far far worse than they really are. Of course everyone knows this.

America is not perfect, and I don't think anyone would purport it to be, definitely not anyone on this forum. The thing that makes America great, imho, is that the potential exists, really exists, in writing but also in practice, for the populace to influence the political environment. Even that potentiality, whether fully realized or not, lifts America above most nations, as most other nations, by the very nature of their political systems, are effectively, and often transparently and obdurately, closed off to any real political influence by the populace short of open rebellion. That same potential may be claimed or aspired to or propagandized, may even be outwardly manifest in some regard, but in reality, in practice, it doesn't exist at all.

the president killed 1 ameircan citizen on a kill list.
1 2 3 4 5 50.000.000 it doesnt matter.
and not all dictators killed millions

 

[addictionary]

A scholar dictator is good for an ignorant society to lead them to a democratic life. Any dictatorship is unacceptable for a democratic society - or a society that trends towards a democratic civil life.

 

[TroutBum]

Because 85 year old invalids are the new wave of terrorism.

Like others have said, it needs to be random. Let's just say I'm a crazy American who really thinks that Obama is going to come to my house and take my gunz, or that the NWO is about to overthrow my ward, or whatever. Let's also say that I'm positive that the CEO of *insert NWO/Alien conspiracy company* is on a flight leaving the SLC airport on Friday, and God has told me that I need to blow him up. I am not a super-terrorist, nor am I part of any secret cell. What I am, however, is a 30ish year old white guy with a clean record, clean shave, clean haircut. I'm going to try to sneak my bomb in the most inconspicuous way possible, and that would probably be on an old lady in a wheel chair. See what I'm getting at here, yo?

and the worse thing about that picture.
is nobody opens their mouth and puts tsa on their place.
because they are afraid of tsa and their government.
afraid to land on the no fly list.
o r afraid to land on a kill list,

the definition of tyranny right there

Wrong again, dumb ***. There is this thing that most of us have, it's called respect for others. I have a feeling you're the kind of guy who swears at waitresses, yells at CSR's when your cable goes out, and generally treats people like **** -- because you're a douche. Most people don't "open their mouth" because they realize that the guys and gals doing the searches are only doing their job. "But TroutBum Wells, why don't they overthrow teh governmentz like patriots would do and stop the TSA, LOLZ0Rz!@!" Because, again, most sane people realize that sometimes security comes at a price, and woe be unto us, that price is... wait for it... having to come to the airport an hour earlier than usual. You can read all the conspiracy **** you want, DutchBag, and you can rip on the USA however you see fit, but do yourself a favor and at least know WTF you're talking about, will ya? For me, please?

That's just it, the standards and methods are woefully inadequate. If someone is determined to get a bomb on a plane the random security checks are not going to stop them. Do you think that the security checks in general are a secret? They know exactly how we look for contraband and what exactly we are looking for. Showing them we are going to check old ladies and babies in an effort to "keep them on their toes" is ludicrous. I seriously doubt there is a single terrorist cell in the world that had a conversation even remotely like this:

Terrorist 1: "Ok our 5 year plan to get a baby and an old lady, then load them up with explosives and roll them onto the plane is almost complete. No one will ever suspect since they obviously won't check old women and babies. It is brilliant!"
Terrorist 2: "Hang on, look at what I just saw on google. They check old ladies and babies. NOOOOOO!!"
Terrorist 1: "Drats, foiled again!"

I just don't think the terrorists are that dumb that what the TSA is doing is functioning as any real deterrent at all. The TSA methods at airports are just short of being a complete joke.

To Dutch's point, interesting quick read about the man who first mentioned "security theater":

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/03/29/how-to-fix-airport-security/

See my above post to DutchBag. Just yesterday the TSA stopped a guy from taking a loaded .45 onto a plane at Salt Lake International. He wasn't part of a secret terrorist cell, and he probably forgot it was in his bag -- or he could have been planning on shooting his way into the cockpit. Who knows? I'm glad we didn't have to find out when he crashed the plane into the state capitol. (which of course would have everyone here who is bitching about the TSA calling for Obama's *** for not catching the bass turds before they could hijack the plane.)

 

[TroutBum]

Look at all of the illegal stuff these guys are doing?! OMG, stealing our gunz, our libertiez, and our pursuit of NASCAR~!

https://blog.tsa.gov/

 

[LogGrad98]

Like others have said, it needs to be random. Let's just say I'm a crazy American who really thinks that Obama is going to come to my house and take my gunz, or that the NWO is about to overthrow my ward, or whatever. Let's also say that I'm positive that the CEO of *insert NWO/Alien conspiracy company* is on a flight leaving the SLC airport on Friday, and God has told me that I need to blow him up. I am not a super-terrorist, nor am I part of any secret cell. What I am, however, is a 30ish year old white guy with a clean record, clean shave, clean haircut. I'm going to try to sneak my bomb in the most inconspicuous way possible, and that would probably be on an old lady in a wheel chair. See what I'm getting at here, yo?


Wrong again, dumb ***. There is this thing that most of us have, it's called respect for others. I have a feeling you're the kind of guy who swears at waitresses, yells at CSR's when your cable goes out, and generally treats people like **** -- because you're a douche. Most people don't "open their mouth" because they realize that the guys and gals doing the searches are only doing their job. "But TroutBum Wells, why don't they overthrow teh governmentz like patriots would do and stop the TSA, LOLZ0Rz!@!" Because, again, most sane people realize that sometimes security comes at a price, and woe be unto us, that price is... wait for it... having to come to the airport an hour earlier than usual. You can read all the conspiracy **** you want, DutchBag, and you can rip on the USA however you see fit, but do yourself a favor and at least know WTF you're talking about, will ya? For me, please?



See my above post to DutchBag. Just yesterday the TSA stopped a guy from taking a loaded .45 onto a plane at Salt Lake International. He wasn't part of a secret terrorist cell, and he probably forgot it was in his bag -- or he could have been planning on shooting his way into the cockpit. Who knows? I'm glad we didn't have to find out when he crashed the plane into the state capitol. (which of course would have everyone here who is bitching about the TSA calling for Obama's *** for not catching the bass turds before they could hijack the plane.)

Those are the obvious easy ones. They have had metal detectors for decades before the new modern TSA that would have caught a .45. That is kind of a big duh there. The issue was a major terrorist attack followed by impotent overkill on "security" that in effect, to the real terrorists it is aimed at, does nothing.

 

[DutchJazzer]

Wrong again, dumb ***. There is this thing that most of us have, it's called respect for others. I have a feeling you're the kind of guy who swears at waitresses, yells at CSR's when your cable goes out, and generally treats people like **** -- because you're a douche. Most people don't "open their mouth" because they realize that the guys and gals doing the searches are only doing their job. "But TroutBum Wells, why don't they overthrow teh governmentz like patriots would do and stop the TSA, LOLZ0Rz!@!"

you dont know me. dont make me out to be a douche because of my "internet personality" ask any of my friends they will tell you i always tease and say whats on my mind. but when push comes to shove i am probably the nicest guy in the world. so don't pretend like you know me cus you have not seen me in my profesional or personal live. you have not seen me while training. you have not seen me in a restaurant. you have not seen me with kids. you have not seen me when i am mad. you have not seen me when i'm with family. you have not seen me when i am sick. you have not seen me sad or happy or whatever.
you have never ever seen me period. so don't assume ****, and follow your own ****ing advice :

but do yourself a favor and at least know WTF you're talking about, will ya? For me, please?

Because, again, most sane people realize that sometimes security comes at a price, and woe be unto us, that price is... wait for it... having to come to the airport an hour earlier than usual. You can read all the conspiracy **** you want, DutchBag, and you can rip on the USA however you see fit, but do yourself a favor and at least know WTF you're talking about, will ya? For me, please?[/FONT]

but yeah security comes at a price. but who decides what price people are willing to pay. I am not willing to pay the following
give my privacyaway to some tsa guy who tried to be a cop but cant become a cop because he failed the psych evaluation and gets paid near minimum wage. to go through 20-30kg of my private luggage.
or get finger printed(something only criminals or suspects of a crime had to do in the 90's)
or get spied on on skype yahoo email whatever

this price is too high for SANE people. maybe the price is to high for security theater.
again **** this tyranny. questioning the sanity of people who question the war on terror(in case you did not know war = terror)
sane people who question prism.
if Germany was filled with guys like me in from 1933 hitler would not have risen to power and butchered millions.
sane people quesitoion these things. sheep like you bend over and take it up the butt and say thank you very much and smille

how many people died in the USA of let's say car accident sin the last 30 years.
or steak knifes.
or snakes.
a ****load more then died to actual terrorism.

yet the price we pay for "safety"(between quotes because it is HORSE ****) against terrorism. is a **** load more then all those other dead causes.
heck smoking and alcohol killed more people than osama.
does the government hunt down the ceo of Tabacco and alcohol company's.
or before you drink do you get tied down to a chair so you cant get in a car and mow down a 3 year old.
the price you pay for a false sense pf safety is absurd. sane people would not pay that price. so you question my sanity. well start questioning yours

this is just horse **** whole war on terror is hypocritical . and i aint falling for it. war is terror so in essence this war on terror is "terror on terror"
so please you stfu and start questioning your own sanity.
rather than mine.
speaking of questioning you should start questioning ****. and not live like a sheep with his head in the sand

 

[Gameface]

That's just it, the standards and methods are woefully inadequate. If someone is determined to get a bomb on a plane the random security checks are not going to stop them. Do you think that the security checks in general are a secret? They know exactly how we look for contraband and what exactly we are looking for. Showing them we are going to check old ladies and babies in an effort to "keep them on their toes" is ludicrous. I seriously doubt there is a single terrorist cell in the world that had a conversation even remotely like this:

Terrorist 1: "Ok our 5 year plan to get a baby and an old lady, then load them up with explosives and roll them onto the plane is almost complete. No one will ever suspect since they obviously won't check old women and babies. It is brilliant!"
Terrorist 2: "Hang on, look at what I just saw on google. They check old ladies and babies. NOOOOOO!!"
Terrorist 1: "Drats, foiled again!"

I just don't think the terrorists are that dumb that what the TSA is doing is functioning as any real deterrent at all. The TSA methods at airports are just short of being a complete joke.

To Dutch's point, interesting quick read about the man who first mentioned "security theater":

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/03/29/how-to-fix-airport-security/

Come on now. If we made it clear that we would not search old ladies then the fictional convo you describe might actually take place. As it stands that's not a glaring weak spot. If we're going to search anyone we need to search everyone. I know it tugs at the heart strings to see a grandma bothered with an invasive search, but it's incredibly naive to think that we should officially exclude any groups from searches because they couldn't possibly pose a threat.

Of course the terrorists know the SOP of the TSA. That's a good thing. Show them that it's a hard target so that they look elsewhere. No need to try to bait them into attacking us by making it seem like there are weak spots that don't exist. that could end up like the fast and furious BS and bite us in the ***.

A little off topic, but that's what bugs me about the NSA secretly checking our data. Don't do it in secret. If it's legit then tell the world "if you try to plan an attack on the U.S. using any sort of electronic communication we have sophisticated monitoring equipment that will flag your *** for a visit from the CIA or Seal Team 6. Have a nice day."

 

[LogGrad98]

Come on now. If we made it clear that we would not search old ladies then the fictional convo you describe might actually take place. As it stands that's not a glaring weak spot. If we're going to search anyone we need to search everyone. I know it tugs at the heart strings to see a grandma bothered with an invasive search, but it's incredibly naive to think that we should officially exclude any groups from searches because they couldn't possibly pose a threat.

Of course the terrorists know the SOP of the TSA. That's a good thing. Show them that it's a hard target so that they look elsewhere. No need to try to bait them into attacking us by making it seem like there are weak spots that don't exist. that could end up like the fast and furious BS and bite us in the ***.

A little off topic, but that's what bugs me about the NSA secretly checking our data. Don't do it in secret. If it's legit then tell the world "if you try to plan an attack on the U.S. using any sort of electronic communication we have sophisticated monitoring equipment that will flag your *** for a visit from the CIA or Seal Team 6. Have a nice day."

Resources are not free. This is the problem with the current approach. We are expending so many resources needlessly "searching" obviously inane targets that it is taking away from actually coming up with effective deterrents. If the resources to search everyone existed, and it could be done efficiently enough that we wouldn't take 12 hours every time we wanted to board a plane, then fine do that. But the random search method is ridiculous, even just from a behavior modification perspective. If the risk of being caught is viewed as slim, then it won't function as a deterrent in any real sense of the word, and right now it just doesn't. If the random search theory worked, then we wouldn't have any tax dodgers, since there is a random audit process in place.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Can't believe I just now saw this thread. Thank God.

 

[Stifle Tower]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPE4OCeKt2k

 

[TroutBum]

you dont know me. dont make me out to be a douche because of my "internet personality" ask any of my friends they will tell you i always tease and say whats on my mind. but when push comes to shove i am probably the nicest guy in the world. so don't pretend like you know me cus you have not seen me in my profesional or personal live. you have not seen me while training. you have not seen me in a restaurant. you have not seen me with kids. you have not seen me when i am mad. you have not seen me when i'm with family. you have not seen me when i am sick. you have not seen me sad or happy or whatever.
you have never ever seen me period. so don't assume ****, and follow your own ****ing advice :

So... you're saying you want to have a Pump Off? I'm down.