Obama Government Shutdown?

[Harambe]

That is true of both parties on any given issue. It is stupid. If there is any falling in line to be done it is with each member falling in line with what their district wants.

King from NY is one that comes to mind who is against the shutdown.

It's very stupid, and when the cost is a government shutdown you should stop it. But the republicans won't, and this time neither will the Dem's. So the question ends up, is it for the good of the party, or something else...

In the article it identifies King(R, NY) and Dent(R, Penn). Privately, they thought they had two dozen red votes locked up to bring to 'publican leadership, but when the vote came they were the only two to speak up. This wasn't a house vote, just a procedural vote. Didn't matter to anyone outside that red group, and 22 of their colleagues that they thought were committed didn't vote or say a word against it.

Now that doesn't necessarily say anything, but doesn't it kind of shine the "bully" light on Red leadership/tea baggers? I can't bring myself to use the T word.

Can you see how someone might think poorly of such actions?

 

[Stoked]

It's very stupid, and when the cost is a government shutdown you should stop it. But the republicans won't, and this time neither will the Dem's. So the question ends up, is it for the good of the party, or something else...

In the article it identifies King(R, NY) and Dent(R, Penn). Privately, they thought they had two dozen red votes locked up to bring to 'publican leadership, but when the vote came they were the only two to speak up. This wasn't a house vote, just a procedural vote. Didn't matter to anyone outside that red group, and 22 of their colleagues that they thought were committed didn't vote or say a word against it.

Now that doesn't necessarily say anything, but doesn't it kind of shine the "bully" light on Red leadership/tea baggers? I can't bring myself to use the T word.

Can you see how someone might think poorly of such actions?

I think poorly of such actions so of course I can. As we have both stated it is stupid. To much toeing the party line and not enough independent thought and back bone.

 

[Revolution 9]

Well, I thought my job was safe. Apparently if this thing continues for 2 weeks it will affect us.
That's reassuring. Less hours, no hours, completely shut down? That's all I heard today. "After two weeks we'll be affected"
Oh great! lol

2 weeks is a long ways away, but damn this just hit home.

 

[YB85]

 

[franklin]

So you are incapable of the intellectual exercise of entertaining different opinions than your own, and exploring outcomes you find absurd just because you can't fathom a different point of view. Fair enough.

You're accusing me of not entertaining different opinions when your options are 1) throw a fit and shut down govt. for not defunding Obamacare, or 2) shut down the govt. and blame it on Democrats for not defunding Obamacare.

You can't accuse someone of intellectual dishonesty when you're attempting to back the discussion into a corner and then claiming nobody will compromise with a my way or the highway position. The Tea Baggers aren't in a position to throw that temper tantrum.

 

[Stoked]

Well, I thought my job was safe. Apparently if this thing continues for 2 weeks it will affect us.
That's reassuring. Less hours, no hours, completely shut down? That's all I heard today. "After two weeks we'll be affected"
Oh great! lol

2 weeks is a long ways away, but damn this just hit home.

It sucks huh?

 

[franklin]

Yeah but no one is willing to discuss that as a viable scenario, when it was all along a valid option.

I agree that shouldn't have had to happen to keep things moving, but it is still an option that the dems could have taken to keep the government running.

And the ACA is not very popular among the general populace right now. Even in the article about it someone posted with an interview with Bill Clinton, he admitted that it isn't what the people wants, but he takes a Nolan stance and just says "but it's what they need, they just don't know it right now, it will be great down the road". Didn't know he was a prophet, but then again this fight is taking on religious undertones wherein logic has no sway.

Notice all of the arguments on JF for it have centered around Obama or others being re-elected on a platform that includes healthcare reform, but no one has stated that the american people voted outright for obamacare. It is always a begs the question scenario, and a real stretch at that. Obamacare in its current form didn't even exist during any of those elections, so how can anyone with the ability to reason claim that the american people defacto voted for EXACTLY this version when they voted in Obama. Maybe that is true for that one individual making the claim, but that hardly makes it true for everyone.

And no one has chosen to address the point that this all changed when the provision was added to force everyone to participate, and that this is the sticking point of the GOP originally. Yes the tea party has taken it to "terrorist" levels to quote franklin, and I agree with that assessment largely, but that doesn't absolve everyone else of the responsibility to keep things moving and doing what is best for the american people.

That said, maybe what is best for the american people right now is EXACTLY what is happening. Maybe this will force people in both parties to reconsider such hardline stances and will change the way people vote. Maybe we can get the tea party jerks out of office as the american people see their true colors, and maybe it will be a catalyzing agent to get the electorate to pay more attention to what is going on rather than just voting on sound bites.

Defeating logic. If the people didn't want Obamacare then the Tea Baggers wouldn't have to hold the economy over our heads to get it repealed. In fact, they tried repealing it three times a day for 5 straight years and lost every time. The people clearly want Obamacare.

 

[Harambe]

Well, I thought my job was safe. Apparently if this thing continues for 2 weeks it will affect us.
That's reassuring. Less hours, no hours, completely shut down? That's all I heard today. "After two weeks we'll be affected"
Oh great! lol

2 weeks is a long ways away, but damn this just hit home.

Good thing you got that supplemental income from being a JF mod

Defeating logic. If the people didn't want Obamacare then the Tea Baggers wouldn't have to hold the economy over our heads to get it repealed. In fact, they tried repealing it three times a day for 5 straight years and lost every time. The people clearly want Obamacare.

I'm not sure the people want the ACA. I think they want and need something to be done about healthcare costs. And they want a perfect solution, to which the ACA is likely not in it's current state. But the American people NEED something to be done about healthcare. The ACA is on the table as a law(which the American people NEED), but because it's not (pick one of the following; red idea, perfect, an idea that didn't have Obama's name on it), the red doesn't want it.

After 30+ years, several versions of the government failed to pass anything. Which is probably why I'm so for doing SOMETHING.

 

[Stoked]

You're accusing me of not entertaining different opinions when your options are 1) throw a fit and shut down govt. for not defunding Obamacare, or 2) shut down the govt. and blame it on Democrats for not defunding Obamacare.

You can't accuse someone of intellectual dishonesty when you're attempting to back the discussion into a corner and then claiming nobody will compromise with a my way or the highway position. The Tea Baggers aren't in a position to throw that temper tantrum.

Republicans are very much using what you said and I think they should be removed from office. But Reid is tabling any bill the House has sent him to avoid the shutdown. That is a my way or the highway approach as well.

If you want to talk about honesty then try putting some in your post.

 

[franklin]

Republicans are very much using what you said and I think they should be removed from office. But Reid is tabling any bill the House has sent him to avoid the shutdown. That is a my way or the highway approach as well.

If you want to talk about honesty then try putting some in your post.

What bill did the house send that did not include Tea Bagger Temper Tantrum?

Give us another option to consider, for intellectual exercise and all.

 

[Revolution 9]

It sucks huh?

Sure does. At this point I can't start to freak out about anything. I'm just pissed for the family members who are getting a fraction of the services they have earned.

There are people that are being ordered to work, but they are being told they may not be pain on time. Ouch. I'm still feeling for my friends, and hoping
I am spared.

How is it affecting you so far bro?

 

[Stoked]

Sure does. At this point I can't start to freak out about anything. I'm just pissed for the family members who are getting a fraction of the services they have earned.

There are people that are being ordered to work, but they are being told they may not be pain on time. Ouch. I'm still feeling for my friends, and hoping
I am spared.

How is it affecting you so far bro?

I go to work but am not getting paid till the pass a budget. That puts my child support late as well. Any leave is cancelled and if I am not at work I am AWOL.