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LDS general conference - Fall 2013

Sirkickyass said:
The garbage thing is because the church fired many janitors in 2000 in a money-saving move. In 2010 the remaining janitorial staff was let go and the church requested that 20-25 people do the janitorial work every week. That's a lot of cleaning.

https://www.scribd.com/doc/38795446/Mormon-Church-Letter-Appointing-Members-as-Janitors

Although I do love this hilariously over produced video about why cleaning the church improves your testimony: https://www.lds.org/callings/meetinghouse-care/reverence?lang=eng
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Wow! That lucky lady who gets to clean the toilets... no fair! I never get to do anything fun like that.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
I'll admit it's been a long time since I left the church and I really haven't paid much attention to it in the interim, but this sounds ridiculous. I recall women working very hard in the church when I attended it, probably harder than men, and although I'm uncertain if any of them ever took the garbage out I definitely don't recall that it was a responsibility of men that was in any way tied to the priesthood.

Additionally, I recall men having all sorts of privileges afforded them by the priesthood which weren't available to women. For example, all of the top leadership positions are exclusively male and only male priesthood holders can lay their hands on others to give blessings, etc. I think you've become so used to the bias that you either don't see it or you are willing to justify it no matter what.
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You're just looking for **** to argue about. I don't really care whether you agree with me or not. I'm sure there is bias in my perspective, just like there is in yours. You have an obvious ax to grind. That's fine, I have no problem with people being disgruntled. To me that's much better than blindly following. But please don't mistakenly assume I am some mormon zombie.

But anywho... You and I have different definitions of "privilege" apparently. I would hardly consider a high leadership position a privilege. That's the kind of stuff I avoid like the plague.

Again, if you disagree, fine. I'm completely okay with that. I'm not trying to change your mind or bring you back into the fold. I thought there might be someone who found my point of view interesting. Maybe nobody does. But either way, I'll respect your right to an opinion, and you can respect mine. How's that sound?
 
Bronco70 said:
Some view the priesthood as much more a responsibility than a right or privilege.

I know this is kind of obtuse, but the young men in my ward are responsible for taking the garbage out of the building after meetings every Sunday. The young women, who outnumber the YM about 2 to 1, are never tasked with it. Not because they can't, but because they, as daughters of God, are above it.

Holding the Priesthood is ecclesiastic janitorial work.

I think the Priesthood is largely misunderstood - it's not magic and it's not authority over anyone else. It's simply a responsibility to serve God. It's extra work, and daughters of God are above it. There are no blessings available to Priesthood holders that aren't available to any and every faithful member.

[/my opinion]
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First of all you know very well that taking out the garbage is not what their priesthood is all about. Secondly how is it not sexist to say that this kind of work is inappropriate for women.( I think you are being disingenuous anyway because Mormon women engage in janitorial work all the time)
 
Trash collection after church? Metaphor fail. What you were looking for is moving people. The Elders Quorum is moving someone damn near every weekend. This is not assigned to the Relief Society. It's not even assigned to the High Priests for the most part. It's the EQ, and it is by design. Now what the High Priests group is for is actually doing their home teaching at a high percentage. That is why generally the widows and perspective elders are assigned to the High Priests Group. What is great is that this is actually laid out just like that in the manual that nobody reads.
Also to say a top leadership position in the church is a desirable thing is just crazy. It is worse than moving people every weekend. Also, how many male primary presidents have you seen? Male relief society leaders? Those are pretty important positions in the ward and make up the ward council which meets, discusses, and decides important ward issues.
 
framer said:
Trash collection after church? Metaphor fail.
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I know, right? Absolutely flat on its face.

It was what came to my mind in the moment. Trust me, I'm already sorry I said anything at all.

heyhey missed it as completely as one could.

But I'm not gonna argue about it.
 
Bronco70 said:
Do I really have to open up that can of worms? I feel like you're going to blast me regardless of how I answer. Oh well...

I think God holds women in higher regard. I know He is "no respecter or persons", but I think the basic characteristics they generally share indicate that he trusts them in a different way than men.

These characteristics include, but are not limited to, compassion, patience, and the ability to nurture and forgive. Yeah, I know. Not all women are like that, and some men are.

Again, this is all just my opinion.
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Nah, not going to blast you or anything. I think we can respectfully disagree.

The whole concept of sexism, to me, is inferring something about someone's inner characteristics based on their outer characteristics, and I feel the typical Mormon responses to women and the priesthood (and similar topics) are sexist under this definition. For instance, I often hear Mormons spout out ideas such as "men are more visual, women are more emotional" as if having a penis inherently makes me a less emotional/spiritual being. So, when you say that women are above the priesthood, I interpret it in a similar fashion--that, as a male, I'm less in some way? If women are "above it", then that means I'm "below" it? All because my body differs from that of a woman's?

I said I wasn't going to blast you, so I hope it doesn't sound like I am. But when I hear people make comments I view as sexist, I try to at least explain to them why I see it that way in the hope that maybe they'll see the sexism in their statements and change them, or that they'll be able to point out flaws in my own reasoning so I no longer have to feel offended by similar statements I hear in the future.
 
heyhey said:
“Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife... as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.”

- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., Latter-day Saint Messenger and Advocate, Nov. 1835
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"Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church"
https://biblehub.com/ephesians/5-23.htm

- Bible, pretty much any version you care to choose.


Not sure what you're trying to say, but surely it's not that anyone who believes in the Bible thinks that women cannot be the equal of men. Is it?
 
spycam1 said:
Nah, not going to blast you or anything. I think we can respectfully disagree.

The whole concept of sexism, to me, is inferring something about someone's inner characteristics based on their outer characteristics, and I feel the typical Mormon responses to women and the priesthood (and similar topics) are sexist under this definition. For instance, I often hear Mormons spout out ideas such as "men are more visual, women are more emotional" as if having a penis inherently makes me a less emotional/spiritual being. So, when you say that women are above the priesthood, I interpret it in a similar fashion--that, as a male, I'm less in some way? If women are "above it", then that means I'm "below" it? All because my body differs from that of a woman's?

I said I wasn't going to blast you, so I hope it doesn't sound like I am. But when I hear people make comments I view as sexist, I try to at least explain to them why I see it that way in the hope that maybe they'll see the sexism in their statements and change them, or that they'll be able to point out flaws in my own reasoning so I no longer have to feel offended by similar statements I hear in the future.
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That right there is the issue. The difference between a man and a woman is not just their junk. I can't see why this would even be arguable.
 
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