A (weakish) Case for Why Marvin Could Have a Big Year in 13-14?
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Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
I think you're first point is correct in the statement "he got more shots because he was playing (better) rather than he play(ed) better when he gets more shots," but take issue with the "when," since it implies my argument stated that 12 shots guaranteed him success, which was not my argument. My post was a historical reference showing his success with 12 shot attempts, that's all. But if we take the "rather" out of your statement, I think the data supports both points:
1.He got more shots because he played better.
2. He played better when he got more shots.
I think they inform each other, not cancel each other out.
For instance, basketball is a game of possessions, and there is only so much shooting to be had by each team. If there are players on a team who aren't keen on passing to you, because they'd rather shoot themselves, or the coach told them to pass to someone else, how good you are doesn't really matter. Another factor to consider is how one's confidence is constructed. For most people, it is built via history, by past opportunities to manifest ones' abilities, they are more likely to believe in them, and thus act on them in the future. It's the old adage "practice makes perfect," but if there are elements (players/coaches/possessions), preventing one from getting that practice, one wouldn't be confident to shoot more, thus one's teammates could sense a lack of confidence and not pass to them. It's a catch-22.
At any rate, here is some more data that could be bent to support either/ both claims:
Al Jefferson averaged 15.8 shot attempts last season, scoring 17.8 PTS . These were his attempt numbers/production in the games where Marvin shot the ball 12 times:
10/31 vs Dallas
Jefferson went 4-11 Scoring 12 PTS
11/23 vs SAC
Jefferson shot 8-14 Scoring 19 PTS
12/22 vs MIA
Jefferson shot 2-8 scoring 6 PTS
2/2 vs POR
Jefferson shot 6-13 scoring 12 PTS
In the games where Marvin shot the ball 12 times, Al didn't shoot his season average of 15.8 attempts. Al only scored his season average in one game where Marvin shot 12 times (vs SAC Al had 19).
Mo Williams averaged 11.6 attempts, scoring 12. 9 PPG. Here's how he fared in those same games:
10/31 vs Dallas
Mo shot 7-16 for 21 PTS (good job Trey! I mean Mo!).
11/23 vs SAC
Mo shot 0-1, scoring 0 PTS.
12/22 vs MIA
Mo shot 2-3, scoring 5 PTS (only played 16 minutes, and got injured).
2/2 vs POR
Mo shot 0-0, scoring 0 PTS (injured)
The data shows us that Al took less shots in all 4 games, and only met/excelled his season average in one of those games. Mo shot less than his season average in 3 of those 4 games (by a lot less in 3 of them), and only met/excelled his season average in one game. With the data, I assume that with Mo and Al shooting less, there were more shots for Marv (so it was an issue of posessions), and when he's taken more shots, he's capitalized on those opportunities.
*all data taken from ESPN Game Logs.
Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
Marvin is not going to change into a good player. Stop waiting. It's like those people that foolishly bought Iraq dinars,
and think that someday they are going to become millionaires. It's never going to happen.
Marvin is just not very good. He disappears on the court for long stretches. His jumper is not consistent.
His defense is overrated. It's time to let it go.
"Best case scenario" is Marvin has a slightly better year, hurts our lottery position, and then just moves on.
Does that sound like something you want?
and think that someday they are going to become millionaires. It's never going to happen.
Marvin is just not very good. He disappears on the court for long stretches. His jumper is not consistent.
His defense is overrated. It's time to let it go.
"Best case scenario" is Marvin has a slightly better year, hurts our lottery position, and then just moves on.
Does that sound like something you want?
Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
Yeah, your post makes a lot of sense. I mean, of course I was saying Marvin was going to become an all star next season.
Honestly, do you read?
We need bench players. Marvin has great length, good athleticism, really good defense (not underrated, he's just not a gambler with a lot of flash), and possesses a decent understanding for the game. He lacks confidence, is getting older, and steps on the line when he shoots threes. He's not going to be great, but he could be a decent piece off the bench if he finds his place here. He'll never make 8 mill a year, or even close, again in his career. I'm just saying we may see something more in him this year than we did last year.
Per your worry, I honestly feel like our lottery position will be fine: we've got Ty at the helm, three undersized shoot-first PG's with little to no starting experience in the NBA, three players coming off of injuries (Kanter is 100% healed, so I really shouldn't be counting him), two non-impacting players in RJ and Andris, a stacked conference to compete in, a new offensive scheme to learn, Sidney Lowe, no Hornacek on the bench, a starting lineup of college aged kids (who I think will be fine, but will make some mistakes), a league of referees who won't be bestowing any beneficial treatment on our roster, an incredibly hard schedule, etc.
Anyways, I am confused. Is me thinking positively about a player who was misused by a bad coach really going to alter our lottery situation? I didn't know I was so powerful. Thou shalt rep me.
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The Fresh Prince
Well-Known Member
Marvin Williams, our undercover Kevin Durant.
I just wanted to vent. I have a problem, and it's unadulterated hatred of this man. I said I was going to give him a another chance this year, and I will.
You aren't confused you are just believing in something happening that probably never will. How many years will it take to make you or any of us realize.
He just isn't consistent enough to be a good starter in this league or play a big role on any good team. I completely agree with you he could be an asset off the bench. That was my problem
last year is it took Corbin almost the whole season to realize that. He's not a starter, we don't want to see him there, and he should earn his minutes.
He does have good games, but he never brings it everytime. When he was starting he was always getting his minutes, and we had to watch so much bad play. He should always come off the bench.
If he is playing well he gets more time THAT game.
In defense of SF's argument
Seems like you are exaggerating SF's position, which seems to be moderate and reasonable. Your position seems much more absolute and extreme, that Marvin will never be a good player and that if Marvin is slightly better it will hurt our lottery chances. I doubt that Marvin's performance effects us by more than 1 win either way.
Seems like you are exaggerating SF's position, which seems to be moderate and reasonable. Your position seems much more absolute and extreme, that Marvin will never be a good player and that if Marvin is slightly better it will hurt our lottery chances. I doubt that Marvin's performance effects us by more than 1 win either way.
D
Deleted member 365
Guest
My hell.
Have none of you heard of "contract year?"
Of course Marvin is playing good ball now. The question is will he be the same after he gets a new deal?
Have none of you heard of "contract year?"
Of course Marvin is playing good ball now. The question is will he be the same after he gets a new deal?
D
Deleted member 848
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High five, Dalamon of 3 months ago!
The Fresh Prince
Well-Known Member
Marvinstill my dog, regardless of what you, and The Thrilla in Manilla think.