This site has jumped the tuna fish by turning on Hayward

[Deleted member 848]

I'm okay with 12per for Hayward. I'll reluctantly swallow up to 13. Would be very upset with a penny more, though. I'd rather save a max either on a legit two-way big-man, or a transcendent, dependable scorer.

 

[DForceAUS]

I could swallow 10-11 but not more than that, had he signed what he was offered ( from reports similar money to Favors) he'd have very very few haters here.
If he signed 10-11 loaded with incentives Im sure no one would begrudge him.

 

[fallenchicken]

Even if we have to overpay Hayward for four years, that won't matter. Burke's contract wouldn't come up until Hay's was ending. Same for whoever we draft this year. I don't think we'll have to give the max--Phoenix or Boston could decide that's what they want to max him and that'd be a real decision. I agree that Phoenix is the scariest of the two: I could see them just going **** it, let Bledsoe go, and throw Hay big money. But if we don't want to give Hay the max, nobody else does. There's almost no reason we don't match any other offer, even if we overpay him. I don't see his contract messing us up too bad.

 

[akirac73]

Hayward at $10M...I love the guy.
Hayward at $11M...Ummm, I'm on the fence.
Hayward at $12M+...he can go **** himself.

 

[b_line]

I'm okay with 12per for Hayward. I'll reluctantly swallow up to 13. Would be very upset with a penny more, though. I'd rather save a max either on a legit two-way big-man, or a transcendent, dependable scorer.

4 year max for Hayward would start at like 12.75 the first year, and goes up from there. I think he might get that this offseason. I bet he gets at least 12.5 per.

 

[fallenchicken]

Was going to see "Wolf of Wall Street". But it seems i am being asked to stay away lest i make the youth of our country uncomfortable.

Don't take your grandkids, is all.

 

[franklin]

Even if we have to overpay Hayward for four years, that won't matter. Burke's contract wouldn't come up until Hay's was ending. Same for whoever we draft this year. I don't think we'll have to give the max--Phoenix or Boston could decide that's what they want to max him and that'd be a real decision. I agree that Phoenix is the scariest of the two: I could see them just going **** it, let Bledsoe go, and throw Hay big money. But if we don't want to give Hay the max, nobody else does. There's almost no reason we don't match any other offer, even if we overpay him. I don't see his contract messing us up too bad.

On that....

Jazz could easily frontload him the full max with declining payouts, and everyone wins .. up front. The problem with these types of contracts, as we saw with Favors, is that extensions are limited to 7.5% per year. So, if a player wants to sign on the decline and then re-up without going to free agency then they must take less than what they may be worth 3 years down the road.

That's why Favors' contract declines and then goes back up. It's a messed up part of the CBA that you can't extend your own player for the max until his contract expires. The small market teams should have demanded the opposite in the recent negotiations. Oh well.

Hayward at $10M...I love the guy.
Hayward at $11M...Ummm, I'm on the fence.
Hayward at $12M+...he can go **** himself.

9% is the difference between "love the guy" and "on the fence", and then "go **** himself"? I wouldn't have expected less from you, actually.

 

[akirac73]

9% is the difference between "love the guy" and "on the fence", and then "go **** himself"? I wouldn't have expected less from you, actually.

9% isn't chump change. I'm sure your employer is fine paying you what you get paid, but if you suddenly demanded a 9% raise (without showing any major improvements in your work performance) they'd tell you to go **** yourself too. That's not an insult, that's just the way business works...everyone is replaceable, especially greedy employees.

 

[b_line]

9% isn't chump change. I'm sure your employer is fine paying you what you get paid, but if you suddenly demanded a 9% raise (without showing any major improvements in your work performance) they'd tell you to go **** yourself too. That's not an insult, that's just the way business works...everyone is replaceable, especially greedy employees.

So.... Hayward has not shown major improvements? Career highs in everything but shooting % is not major improvement?

 

[MVP]

Anything over 10 mil is overpaying. If Jazz end up with Parker or Wiggins then they will let other team overpay. Think about our starting 5 next year - Burke, Burks, Parker/Wiggins, Favors, Kanter. Why do we need Hayward at 12-13mil here? He can accept 10mil deal or take his talents to Beantown.

 

[fgcamel]

Anything over 10 mil is overpaying. If Jazz end up with Parker or Wiggins then they will let other team overpay. Think about our starting 5 next year - Burke, Burks, Parker/Wiggins, Favors, Kanter. Why do we need Hayward at 12-13mil here? He can accept 10mil deal or take his talents to Beantown.

But if we have those guys on rookie deals why not keep gordon as well? He can always be traded later if it really becomes a big issue.

But more importantly, am i the only one here that has no idea what Jumping the tuna fish means???

 

[MVP]

But if we have those guys on rookie deals why not keep gordon as well? He can always be traded later if it really becomes a big issue.

Not sure trading him after overpaying him 12-13mil/year will be such an easy thing.

 

[HeavenHarris]

Was going to see "Wolf of Wall Street". But it seems i am being asked to stay away lest i make the youth of our country uncomfortable.

what u talkin bout bro? aint nobody sayin dat. go watch it. i bet u get all da moes. just ask em if dey ever got der peaches n cream ate by a bro who has removable teeth n ****. use dat old man swag in ur favor bro. got a cane? it aint a cane. it's yo pimp stick. etc. etc. PM me if u need more tips like dis.

 

[fallenchicken]

9% isn't chump change. I'm sure your employer is fine paying you what you get paid, but if you suddenly demanded a 9% raise (without showing any major improvements in your work performance) they'd tell you to go **** yourself too. That's not an insult, that's just the way business works...everyone is replaceable, especially greedy employees.

Um, only that analogy isn't at all accurate to the situation.

Say you're one of 450 people on the planet that can do a certain job, and you happen to be in the upper-echelon of that group. Say there are millions and millions of dollars at stake. And there are 30 possible employers, a few who would definitely, love to pay you %9 more to come pay for them.

I don't know where jazz fans got this fantasy that we'll pay people what we want to. We'll pay what the market says we will. And if I'm Phoenix or Boston, and I find out I can get Hay for 11 or 12 million, I'd do it in a second. Why not? Because we'd prefer to pay him 10?

 

[cowhide]

Great thread, Chickamon.

Hayward is in that Deng position where he seems to be overpaid until you surround him with three other guys and he becomes the perfect glue guy. Then his value is realized. I'm probably selling him short atm in wanting to trade him for another asset and then replace 80% of his production for millions less this summer. Hopefully they quit using him on ball and he becomes more efficient.

Deng was just traded.

 

[cowhide]

How is this year any different than other years? Jazz fans like to complain! Is this a news story really?

Wolf of Wall Street was great and I agree don't bring your parent or wife? Leonard was great but he is going to have some decent competition. If you have watched 12 days a Slave, you will understand.

 

[fallenchicken]

How is this year any different than other years? Jazz fans like to complain! Is this a news story really?

Wolf of Wall Street was great and I agree don't bring your parent or wife? Leonard was great but he is going to have some decent competition. If you have watched 12 days a Slave, you will understand.

Leonard, 12 days a slave. Excellent post. Mad rep.

 

[cowhide]

Um, only that analogy isn't at all accurate to the situation.

Say you're one of 450 people on the planet that can do a certain job, and you happen to be in the upper-echelon of that group. Say there are millions and millions of dollars at stake. And there are 30 possible employers, a few who would definitely, love to pay you %9 more to come pay for them.

I don't know where jazz fans got this fantasy that we'll pay people what we want to. We'll pay what the market says we will. And if I'm Phoenix or Boston, and I find out I can get Hay for 11 or 12 million, I'd do it in a second. Why not? Because we'd prefer to pay him 10?

While I agree that the market sets the price but in reality the market value is what anyone will pay and not what the player wants. Regardless, if there are only 30 teams and 450 players each player is eventually replaceable. Very few players are that good that they are not replaceable, Hayward is not one of those players. So if the Jazz decide the market price is higher than they want to pay then they can move their asset (Hayward) to get back a draft pick that would be used to replace Hayward. A replacement who could potentially replace his output at a cheaper price. That is good business.

 

[cowhide]

I like Hayward just at the right price. The Jazz have to be very careful not to overpay for one player and have it lead to losing two other good players.

 

[b_line]

I like Hayward just at the right price. The Jazz have to be very careful not to overpay for one player and have it lead to losing two other good players.

The only way that happens is if they give Hayward the five year max like Paul George got, and that just is t happening. The reason they won't lose other players is because burks and kanter are not max guys, and burke's rookie deal will not end until Hayward's extension is done, assuming he gets the four year extension. The only thing it really affects is the ability to sign a max free agent, and that was never really a concern here anyways, as it's not happening.

Another consideration is that the salary cap is going to be a lot higher at the end of Hayward's contract than it is now, so we will have more ability to sign other players/extend the ones we have.

The real problem with keeping the team together comes after Hayward and favors deals expire. If they are both max players at that point, you want to keep them, but we might have Burke and hopefully Jabari/wiggins playing at a max level too. So at that point, you have to trade or not re-sign someone. But that is 4 1/2 years from now, and not hinged at all on the contract extension that Hayward signs at the end of this year.