Hayward --> Celtics ?

[Sexual Favors]

Boston are currently 6th worst and who knows some teams might even out tank them.


If they slip down to 8th or worse, I think that's a fair deal on both sides for a straight swap with Hayward. (you're looking at Aaron Gordon, Garry Harris, etc)

You're undervaluing Hayward. Hayward next to a real #1 (which Boston could easily attract given it's location/legacy), he is a legit #2. Pure point forward skills are possessed only by Kevin Durant/ Lebron James (Hayward is not anywhere near those players offensively, but that is how rare the rest of his skill set is).

 

[The Midnight]

You're undervaluing Hayward. Hayward next to a real #1 (which Boston could easily attract given it's location/legacy), he is a legit #2. Pure point forward skills are possessed only by Kevin Durant/ Lebron James (Hayward is not anywhere near those players offensively, but that is how rare the rest of his skill set is).

Well you have to also factor in the fact that if BOS finished 8th worse, there is a chance of a top 3 pick (if the pick is unprotected). So that's the opportunity that BOS will be forgoing by trading for Hayward.

 

[Sexual Favors]

Boston are currently 6th worst and who knows some teams might even out tank them.


If they slip down to 8th or worse, I think that's a fair deal on both sides for a straight swap with Hayward. (you're looking at Aaron Gordon, Garry Harris, etc)

You're undervaluing Hayward. Hayward next to a real #1 (which Boston could easily attract given it's location/legacy), would be a legit #2. Pure point forward skills are possessed only by Kevin Durant/ Lebron James and the Gordon Hayward's of the league (Hayward is not anywhere near those players offensively, but that is how rare the rest of his skill set is).

 

[green]

Here is my trade:

Kanter, Hayward, Biedrens for Wallace and Green and Boston's 2014 first and Brooklyn's 2016 and 2017 firsts.

This is a swing for the fences move for both franchises and might seem dumb at first, but could pay off big time.

Why Boston does it:

They now have $33 million on the books next year. Add in Hayward and it is around 43-45 million. That puts them 13-15 under the cap AND 27 million under the tax line. This also gives them this nucleus:

PG - Rondo
SG - Hayward
SF - ???
PF - Sullinger
C - Kanter

So, they have a ton of cap room, and an opening at SF...This puts them in the LeBron sweepstakes. As good as Parker or Wiggins may be, I'd take LeBron. They could convince LeBron to come to Boston with this YOUNG team, and win 3 more titles, and do it in Boston, where great players win titles.

Why Boston doesn't do it:

They don't think they can get LeBron.

Why Utah does it:

This give Utah two top 10 picks this year, and six unprotected picks the next three years. Utah maximizes their chance for a superstar, because Utah realizes that without drafting a top player, they have no shot at a title, and Utah wants to win a title. Utah could end up with Parker, McDermott and Gordon out of this draft.

Why Utah doesn't do it:

They are admitting that Hayward and Kanter aren't good enough. If they keep Hayward and Kanter, add a bench and a coach, they can get back to their bottom half playoff seeds/money making ways. No risk to stand pat. No title either.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

The thing is that Boston will be pissed if they trade a pick for Hayward that turns out to be top 3 in this upcoming draft. That would be an epic blunder on their part. Boston will want protection and contingencies on the pick, and that will be the deal breaker.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Yea or nay on this deal:
Hayward and Williams for Wallace and their lottery pick (unrestricted).

Hayward essentially traded for the pick. Jazz get a top-10 player in the draft on a rookie deal (and maybe improve their own pick a couple of spots). Don't have to fork out $10-$12M for Gordon. Wallace is dead weight but have room for his salary due to not paying out big money for Hayward. He can eat up some mins next season as the backup to whoever DL gets as a starter - either a pick or free agent.

Boston hates to give up their pick, but they get perhaps their only chance to dump Wallace's salary and still get a great player. Chance goes up to re-sign Rondo because of the immediate improvement to their team. Yes, they'd kick themselves if the pick turned out to be top-3. But Hayward at 16/6/5 will give them better immediate returns than Wiggins or Parker.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

@green: I wouldn't move Kanter in a deal whose value is that speculative. No way.

 

[David Stern]

Why don't we just trade him for some kind of pick now, then sign him to a max deal in free agency?

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Yea or nay on this deal:
Hayward and Williams for Wallace and their lottery pick (unrestricted).

Hayward essentially traded for the pick. Jazz get a top-10 player in the draft on a rookie deal. Don't have to fork out $10-$12M for Gordon.
Wallace is dead weight but have room for him due to not paying out big money for Hayward. He can eat up some mins next season as the backup to whoever DL gets as a starter - either a pick or free agent.

Boston hates to give up their pick, but they get perhaps their only chance to dump Wallace's salary and still get a great player. Chance goes up to re-sign Rondo because of the immediate improvement to their team.

Jazz would say yes. Celtics would say no. To miss out on Jabari Parker or Andrew Wiggins as a consequence of trading for Gordon Hayward is a career threatening blunder. Even if the lottery odds are 30% or whatever, that's too much of a risk.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Who was the Clippers' GM that lost out on Kyrie Irving because he wanted to dump Baron Davis' salary?

 

[Stifle Tower]

Who was the Clippers' GM that lost out on Kyrie Irving because he wanted to dump Baron Davis' salary?

That was a straight dump. In this case they're getting Hayward, whom they have no chance at getting otherwise, UNLESS they trade Rondo first. They'd have about $4M in cap space and the ability to open up more by trading Bass or Green. Both of those players are marketable if Boston were to go after a top-level FA.

I agree it's unlikely. Boston would probably love to draft Embiid.

 

[The Midnight]

That was a straight dump. In this case they're getting Hayward, whom they have no chance at getting otherwise, UNLESS they trade Rondo first.

Rondo & Hayward would make a great core.

 

[DForceAUS]

Jazz playing chicken with Boston.
As it stands now, Boston won't have cap room to make Gordon an offer this summer without making some significant trades. They're nearly $12M OVER the cap right now. Expirings are Humphries ($12M), Bayless ($3M) and Avery ($2.5). Add in cap holds for their picks and they're dead in the water. They'd need to clear off Rondo, Wallace or Bass and Bogans. Bass has value but good luck finding a taker for Wallace's contract.

Simply put, if they want Hayward, they have to trade Rondo to a team that won't send salary back or give up their lottery pick. It's that simple. And even then, Utah can (and likely will) match an offer for Hayward. Or, some other team may step in ahead of Boston while they're trying to clear room and sign Hayward to an offer sheet.

wanted to rep.

 

[Sexual Favors]

I LOVE Hayward, but I would do the trade if it was Trey Burke and Gordon Hayward for Rajon Rondo and their unprotected first.

We'd have Rondo till the summer of 2015 to prove that we are going to be contenders. A real defensive minded, pass-first facilitator who knows what it takes to win a championship: a real leader for our young core.

Their unprotected first could somehow win us Jabari, or it could be Doug Mcdermott.


I do it because I think Trey will always be too selfish to lead us to the promise land. We could get Rondo, evaluate him ourselves, and then sit him for a couple of games here and there under the guise that we are worried about his knee (thus helping us get the tank back on track) Our team wouldn't know what to do in the games w/o Hayward, Burke, or Rondo facilitating.

The Jazz need a defensive minded PG if they are going to tap into the potential of Enes Kanter. Kanter will never be an elite defender. Like Boozer on the Bulls, we need to get pieces that hide his deficiencies.

Celtics don't do it though. It's too good.

 

[fishonjazz]

I'm the biggest Hayward partisan here--but the Celts #1, you'd have to do that. For nothing else though: I don't want Rondo, I don't want no ****-butt jeff green, i want an unprotected #1. I doubt the Celts would do it, but if they like Hayward that much... worth a shot.

This

 

[GVC]

Pure point forward skills are possessed only by Kevin Durant/ Lebron James (Hayward is not anywhere near those players offensively, but that is how rare the rest of his skill set is).

1. Hayward is not a forward.

2. You're overrating Gordo's ability to create for others.

 

[Sexual Favors]

1. Hayward is not a forward.

2. You're overrating Gordo's ability to create for others.

1. Hayward is a wing. We play him as a wing. Wing refers to players who can move between the guard and forward roles, since he has played both on our team the term "Point Forward" is appropriate.

2. No, I'm not. Who are the players that average at least 16, 5 and 5?

 

[GVC]

2. No, I'm not. Who are the players that average at least 16, 5 and 5?

How many players are put in that role who are as ineffective as Gordo? Take a look at team points per game on player drives from NBA.com's player tracking data. Divide that number by player drives per game. Gordo does a very poor job by this rough measure (63rd of the top 74 in total drives this season).

As far as wing players and assists, there are a few you're ignoring who have a higher or comparable AST% than Gordo. Higher: Manu, Lance, Tyreke (and DWade). Close: Nic Batum, James Harden.

 

[Sexual Favors]

How many players are put in that role who are as ineffective as Gordo? Take a look at team points per game on player drives from NBA.com's player tracking data. Divide that number by player drives per game. Gordo does a very poor job by this rough measure (63rd of the top 74 in total drives this season).

As far as wing players and assists, there are a few you're ignoring who have a higher or comparable AST% than Gordo. Higher: Manu, Lance, Tyreke (and DWade). Close: Nic Batum, James Harden.

I wasn't ignoring them. My point is that is great company to be in. If we are entertaining trades for him, we shouldn't undervalue him, especially when we hold all the cards.

Per your first paragraph, I said in my original post that his offense isn't anywhere near those players, so... Don't you think it is hard to judge whether or not Gordon is or can be a #2 without a real #1 for him to play with and alleviate the pressure?

Like I said before, there are few players who average at least 16 pts, 5 rebounds, and 5 assists, and those that do are an elite company to be in. There are lots of players who average 2 of the 3, but that's not the same. Hayward is young, athletic, and possesses a rare and coveted skill set. He's not a superstar, but his worth is far greater than a lot of fans understand.

 

[Crawlnstall]

I remember last year I got my hopes up for a trade at the deadline. This year I'm gonna be floored if we trade anybody, especially Hayward. No way Boston gives up their pick unprotected. Hayward will be a Jazz man next year, seems simple enough to me