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GUN CONTROL is STUPID. HELL YEAH

Revolution 9 said:
I dont think armed citizens would have stopped the Nazis. It was more than that. They did control with fear, but even more with hope, and pride. Remember how low of a moral had after WW1. I don't think they would have risen up against the party, because too many of them with either for it or turned a blind eye to it. Maybe small pockets, but I just don't get how we are relating the two. I do get that idea of an unarmed populace can be easier to control, but I still think it's a little outlandish to say that if we have gun control we are doing what Hitler wanted. That's what I hearing when I'm hearing the Hitler wanted to disarm his citizens line, and it's used by the gun enthusiasts. Hitler really shouldn't be used in normal political debate. It's so far away from where we are, and so complex that just pulling individual points into todays conversation usually don't hold much weight in reality.
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you should read some holocaust books from the german perspective.
y
 
Revolution 9 said:
I want you to know that I wasn't saying that about you, but some "gun enthusiasts" use this. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

I understand that atrocities are still happening. Nothing quite on the level and scope and Nazi Germany but there are some horror stories out there. Look what is happing in Korea right now. Camps for people who are against the government. It's sickening. I just dont agree that armed citizens would change the outcome overall in many or any of these situations. Just my opinion. Hope you can respect that.
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maybe it would not change the outcome but if i have a handgun i can take down 2 unsuspecting goverment scum and get me some heavier weapons.
enough examples of this hapening on smal scale eg the bielski brothers.
they build up a nice resitance.
 
Revolution 9 said:
This isn't about disarming the United States. I am not for that. Personally I don't want a weapon but it doesnt mean you cant. Can we not look at the current state of guns in our country. Are you ok with what is allowed to be purchased? I personally dont feel any fear going into a Mall here, bank, gas station or Movie theater. I do not feel the same way in the US right now.
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i would be scare to enter gun free zones in the us.
all mass shootings happened in a gun free zone.
so yeah go to malls that allow guns. movie theathers that allow guns. campusses that allow guns you are super safe there.
 
DutchJazzer said:
you should read some holocaust books from the german perspective.
y
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From which side? I have read many, from both the point of view of the general populace and from the Nazi viewpoint. Pretty startling in contrast really.
 
dalamon said:
Right, and if every Jew had a Luger P08 it would have definitely shifted the tides of history.
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Maybe, maybe not. But it is telling that disarming the populace is one of the first things Hitler focused on. The laws he used were largely already on the book, with the aim ironically of making it harder for Nazis among others to gain access to weapons, so it was already tough to get weapons, but he did make it a focus in the early years of Nazi control.
 
LogGrad98 said:
From which side? I have read many, from both the point of view of the general populace and from the Nazi viewpoint. Pretty startling in contrast really.
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Any recommendations?

Also, when you refer to the general populace are you taking about the German populace, the Jewish folk or a combination of the two?
 
VINYLONE said:
Any recommendations?

Also, when you refer to the general populace are you taking about the German populace, the Jewish folk or a combination of the two?
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The German populace and the Jewish perspective really. A good place to start is "The Holocaust" by Benz. It is somewhat more recent (late 90's) but it is also a very well-done balanced look at the whole thing with interesting asides from differing perspectives. And he doesn't pull any punches. I would have to break out some of my books to get other titles, or get on the google. I will get back to you.
 
LogGrad98 said:
From which side? I have read many, from both the point of view of the general populace and from the Nazi viewpoint. Pretty startling in contrast really.
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some german friends from east germany lend me some books while i was there.
basically the nromal citizens during the war. how everybody kinda forgot/forgets how they had to live in fear.
trying to subdue morals and principles
 
VINYLONE said:
This is correct. If people were really for banning the firearm most used in violent crime, they'd be focused on handguns and not rifles.
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"Most used" doesn't help those interested in stopping mass murders, which is the focal point of the issue.
 
Revolution 9 said:
This isn't about disarming the United States. I am not for that. Personally I don't want a weapon but it doesnt mean you cant. Can we not look at the current state of guns in our country. Are you ok with what is allowed to be purchased? I personally dont feel any fear going into a Mall here, bank, gas station or Movie theater. I do not feel the same way in the US right now.
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I was just in Germany a couple months ago. While I agree about its safety it didn't feel any more or less safe than most of the areas in Denver I go to.

However I avoid certain parts of Denver (though in reality, even the bad parts of Denver are nothing like parts of Oakland or Chicago or Detroit). The reality of the US is that violent crime tends to be concentrated in certain parts of large urban areas. The one thing you can say about Germany is you can probably go to any city and not feel in danger, but for most people in the US crime isn't a big deal since most of us don't live in those areas. Unfortunately for those who do it's absolute misery.
 
Hantlers said:
Shouldn't most of those be listed under alcohol or drug related deaths?

I'm assuming that's what most of those are coming from.
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actually I think a fair number of them (just like accidental gun deaths) involve children or babies

some are also the result of other illnesses or conditions a person may have (seizures, epilepsy etc). I may be wrong, but I think John Travolta had a 12 year old son who died this way.
 
franklin said:
"Most used" doesn't help those interested in stopping mass murders, which is the focal point of the issue.
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Is it? Or is it the political trojan horse used in order to frenzy those that would support the taking away of gun rights?
 
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