Is Utah Jazz One of Those Teams...

[addictionary]

... that as soon as the players who rocked before join the roster they suck or they suck whence within the roster and as soon as they quit, they start to rock?


Randy's 30/15 in Colorado made me wondering.

 

[Ellipse]

... that as soon as the players who rocked before join the roster they suck or they suck whence within the roster and as soon as they quit, they start to rock?


Randy's 30/15 in Colorado made me wondering.

Under Sloan, the whole played better than the sum of the parts, so rarely did a role player do better on another team. Under Corbin. the whole plays much worse than the sum of the parts, so it's easier for ex-Jazzmen to shine elsewhere.

 

[cowhide]

Randy Foye had some big games with the Jazz. Maybe not the assists but scoring wise he did. Some players do well in both systems, some suck when they leave the Jazz and I can't think of too many who have excelled once leaving Utah (Dell Curry had a good career and did nothing in Utah).

Shannon Anderson - never was as good as he was with the Jazz.
Deron Williams - I know his numbers have been down but that has mostly due to injuries. When he is healthy he plays great.
Howard Eisley - did nothing when he left the Jazz and I am sure most fans think he didn't do much with the Jazz but I think he played better under the Jazz system.
Karl Malone - He played well even though he was hurt and not the primary player. Had a big playoff game against Houston 33 pts 15 rebounds just before he got hurt. Malone is great no matter what.
Blue Edwards - did nothing but play decently with the Jazz
Mo Williams - had a decent career both with the Jazz and with Cleveland
Ronnie Brewer - Jazz system made him offensively. Turned into a journeyman once he left the Jazz.
Matt Harping was a better player on the Jazz until he got hurt. Still a decent player with Orlando. About the same maybe a little better with jazz.
AK - Better with the Jazz - mostly about effort which is why he is a shell of the player he was.
There are a ton of players who played well or had a role with the Jazz and did squat with other teams.. Bobby Hansen, John Crotty, Big Dog, Foster, Red head kid from stanford (man getting old sucks)
Carlos Arroyo - One good year and he thought he was the next John Stockton, went to detroit and bombed then Miami and now is in Europe. He was a douche-bag who should have appreciated the Jazz organization and the fat contract he got for having a decent year in Utah.
Boozer - not as good as he was on the Jazz -seems to have been healthy away from the Jazz. I think age has something to do with it and the fact that he has been really exposed as a bad defender.
AL Jefferson - having a better year and playing better defense
Millsap - I know he made the All-star team but he might just be slightly better in Atlanta mainly because he is one of the main guys there. I just think Millsap would be the same player anywhere he goes because he works hard and plays hard despite some ridiculous rantings on Jazzfanz contrary to this fact.
Stockton - I think his game fell apart once he went into retirement. However, I've heard he can still school his kids. Dude would be great if he played with the Washington Generals.

I think there a lot of factors that determine the success or failure - age, injuries, bad fit, coaching changes or team gets better player so role changes or just plain laziness.

 

[addictionary]

Randy Foye had some big games with the Jazz. Maybe not the assists but scoring wise he did. Some players do well in both systems, some suck when they leave the Jazz and I can't think of too many who have excelled once leaving Utah (Dell Curry had a good career and did nothing in Utah).

Shannon Anderson - never was as good as he was with the Jazz.
Deron Williams - I know his numbers have been down but that has mostly due to injuries. When he is healthy he plays great.
Howard Eisley - did nothing when he left the Jazz and I am sure most fans think he didn't do much with the Jazz but I think he played better under the Jazz system.
Karl Malone - He played well even though he was hurt and not the primary player. Had a big playoff game against Houston 33 pts 15 rebounds just before he got hurt. Malone is great no matter what.
Blue Edwards - did nothing but play decently with the Jazz
Mo Williams - had a decent career both with the Jazz and with Cleveland
Ronnie Brewer - Jazz system made him offensively. Turned into a journeyman once he left the Jazz.
Matt Harping was a better player on the Jazz until he got hurt. Still a decent player with Orlando. About the same maybe a little better with jazz.
AK - Better with the Jazz - mostly about effort which is why he is a shell of the player he was.
There are a ton of players who played well or had a role with the Jazz and did squat with other teams.. Bobby Hansen, John Crotty, Big Dog, Foster, Red head kid from stanford (man getting old sucks)
Carlos Arroyo - One good year and he thought he was the next John Stockton, went to detroit and bombed then Miami and now is in Europe. He was a douche-bag who should have appreciated the Jazz organization and the fat contract he got for having a decent year in Utah.
Boozer - not as good as he was on the Jazz -seems to have been healthy away from the Jazz. I think age has something to do with it and the fact that he has been really exposed as a bad defender.
AL Jefferson - having a better year and playing better defense
Millsap - I know he made the All-star team but he might just be slightly better in Atlanta mainly because he is one of the main guys there. I just think Millsap would be the same player anywhere he goes because he works hard and plays hard despite some ridiculous rantings on Jazzfanz contrary to this fact.
Stockton - I think his game fell apart once he went into retirement. However, I've heard he can still school his kids. Dude would be great if he played with the Washington Generals.

I think there a lot of factors that determine the success or failure - age, injuries, bad fit, coaching changes or team gets better player so role changes or just plain laziness.

Great examples. But I think most of them were in their primes when with the Jazz. Same reasons actually, with the ones you've stated in the end.

I think there a lot of factors that determine the success or failure - age, injuries, bad fit, coaching changes or team gets better player so role changes or just plain laziness.

 

[homeytennis]

Great examples. But I think most of them were in their primes when with the Jazz. Same reasons actually, with the ones you've stated in the end.

Randy was a first round draft pick and had quite a few decent seasons before joining the Jazz.

 

[Stifle Tower]

I think there a lot of factors that determine the success or failure - age, injuries, bad fit, coaching changes or team gets better player so role changes or just plain laziness.

I'd say stage of career is a major factor. You'd expect players like Mo, Matthews, etc. to continue to improve since they left at the beginning of their careers. Others like AK were at the end. Generally I'd say the Jazz system under Sloan made players better. Utah was consistently among the league leaders in FG% and assists. The offense was designed to get good high-percentage shots. Under Corbin, I'm not sure there is an offensive system.

Foye, Millsap, Korver, Jefferson are the same players they were in Utah. The difference is that Millsap is getting more touches without plays having to always go through Al. Jefferson has some better defenders around him. For example, Paul is back to his pre-Al average of 2010, although his shooting percentages are down. He's now taking about three 3's per game vs. less than 1 when he was in Utah. Jefferson's numbers are up slightly, but not significantly on a per36 basis. Believe it or not, he's taking even MORE shots in Charlotte than he did in Utah. He's leading the team to about the same record Utah had last year. Foye's minutes are up, overall FG% up slightly, but 3PT% down. Really a wash. Per game scoring is due to taking more shots, not the fact he is an appreciably better player in Denver than he was in Utah.

 

[addictionary]

A different angle:

 

[addictionary]

Goddamn, this guy had some Windy city chrasima:

 

[akirac73]

Randy Foye had some big games with the Jazz. Maybe not the assists but scoring wise he did. Some players do well in both systems, some suck when they leave the Jazz and I can't think of too many who have excelled once leaving Utah (Dell Curry had a good career and did nothing in Utah).

Shannon Anderson - never was as good as he was with the Jazz.
Deron Williams - I know his numbers have been down but that has mostly due to injuries. When he is healthy he plays great.
Howard Eisley - did nothing when he left the Jazz and I am sure most fans think he didn't do much with the Jazz but I think he played better under the Jazz system.
Karl Malone - He played well even though he was hurt and not the primary player. Had a big playoff game against Houston 33 pts 15 rebounds just before he got hurt. Malone is great no matter what.
Blue Edwards - did nothing but play decently with the Jazz
Mo Williams - had a decent career both with the Jazz and with Cleveland
Ronnie Brewer - Jazz system made him offensively. Turned into a journeyman once he left the Jazz.
Matt Harping was a better player on the Jazz until he got hurt. Still a decent player with Orlando. About the same maybe a little better with jazz.
AK - Better with the Jazz - mostly about effort which is why he is a shell of the player he was.
There are a ton of players who played well or had a role with the Jazz and did squat with other teams.. Bobby Hansen, John Crotty, Big Dog, Foster, Red head kid from stanford (man getting old sucks)
Carlos Arroyo - One good year and he thought he was the next John Stockton, went to detroit and bombed then Miami and now is in Europe. He was a douche-bag who should have appreciated the Jazz organization and the fat contract he got for having a decent year in Utah.
Boozer - not as good as he was on the Jazz -seems to have been healthy away from the Jazz. I think age has something to do with it and the fact that he has been really exposed as a bad defender.
AL Jefferson - having a better year and playing better defense
Millsap - I know he made the All-star team but he might just be slightly better in Atlanta mainly because he is one of the main guys there. I just think Millsap would be the same player anywhere he goes because he works hard and plays hard despite some ridiculous rantings on Jazzfanz contrary to this fact.
Stockton - I think his game fell apart once he went into retirement. However, I've heard he can still school his kids. Dude would be great if he played with the Washington Generals.

I think there a lot of factors that determine the success or failure - age, injuries, bad fit, coaching changes or team gets better player so role changes or just plain laziness.

Big Al and Millsap are the only two on the list that played better after leaving the Jazz. Who were they coached by on the Jazz? Connect the dots.

 

[cowhide]

Great examples. But I think most of them were in their primes when with the Jazz. Same reasons actually, with the ones you've stated in the end.

Yes I did mention age but most of the guys who left were coming off their first contracts so they were n't old. Like Shannon, Brewer, Mo, Blue Edwards etc. Many of these guys were rookies so you could argue that their numbers were low due to being inexperienced. Anyways, I think overall there is some good and some bad when it comes to how former Jazz players perform when leaving the Jazz. I don't think the Jazz made any major mistakes like getting rid of say Chancey Billups and then him becoming an all-star.

I always thought letting Dell Curry go was a big mistake on the Jazz. I guess he and Sloan didn't get along. Also letting AD go to was a mistake that even Frank Layden admitted to years later.

 

[DutchJazzer]

tl;dr

 

[akirac73]

Yes I did mention age but most of the guys who left were coming off their first contracts so they were n't old. Like Shannon, Brewer, Mo, Blue Edwards etc. Many of these guys were rookies so you could argue that their numbers were low due to being inexperienced. Anyways, I think overall there is some good and some bad when it comes to how former Jazz players perform when leaving the Jazz. I don't think the Jazz made any major mistakes like getting rid of say Chancey Billups and then him becoming an all-star.

I always thought letting Dell Curry go was a big mistake on the Jazz. I guess he and Sloan didn't get along. Also letting AD go to was a mistake that even Frank Layden admitted to years later.

Although I've always was a AD fan, I don't think letting him go was a mistake. Karl Malone may not have become the dominant star he was in the league if he had to play second fiddle to Dantley for 5 years or so. When the Mailman was thrust into the role of "being the man" at an early age, he embraced it went on to become the greatest Power Forward in NBA History.

 

[Ellipse]

Yes I did mention age but most of the guys who left were coming off their first contracts so they were n't old. Like Shannon, Brewer, Mo, Blue Edwards etc. Many of these guys were rookies so you could argue that their numbers were low due to being inexperienced. Anyways, I think overall there is some good and some bad when it comes to how former Jazz players perform when leaving the Jazz. I don't think the Jazz made any major mistakes like getting rid of say Chancey Billups and then him becoming an all-star.

I always thought letting Dell Curry go was a big mistake on the Jazz. I guess he and Sloan didn't get along. Also letting AD go to was a mistake that even Frank Layden admitted to years later.

Assuming I remember right, Dell was left unprotected during the expansion draft and Charlotte took him.