Poll: Should the Jazz Match Hayward's $15.75 a year/4 year Contract?

[Coach Ellis]

I agree kinda but feel paul george is overpaid a little too

One good thing about Hayward's contract offer is that it's a 3-4 year deal. It's not the 5 year max. If Hayward improves under Snyder and becomes a 20-5-5 guy who does all the little things that a glue guy does. . . then the Jazz will be happy that they matched. The key is Exum. If he becomes the franchise player they think he's capable of, then they need guys like Favors, Hayward and even Burks/Burke surrounding and supporting him.

My guess is that this team is all about building around Dante Exum from this point forward. If Hayward helps in that process. . . they'll keep him for as long as they can. Considering the improvements DeMarre Carroll made under Snyder in one season, I'm hopeful that all of the young guys (including Hayward) take big steps up. If not so the are legit NBA starters, then at least so they're better assets to trade for a star if/when one comes available.

 

[sirkickyass]

The provision has nothing to do with the salaries of 1st round picks. The first year of an offer sheet to a restricted free agent with less than 3 years of service time (early bird, as opposed to Larry Bird free agent) can only be for up to the non-taxpayer mid-level exception. The second year can contain a raise up to 4.1% of the first year salary. The third and possible fourth year can be up to any amount such that the average salary over the whole contract is not more than the signing team's available cap space. Structuring contracts this way allows teams to match the offer using cap space, the non-taxpayer mid-level exception or the Early Bird exception (the team does not have Bird Rights, since the player hasn't been in the league for 3 seasons).

LINK

What about the Nick Collison precedent where putting the signing bonus all into the first year's cap space allows teams to structure deals to be tremendously front-loaded?

See: https://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/22025/inside-collisons-unique-contract-extension

To the best of my knowledge this did not change with the most recent CBA. Sounds to me like this is the kind of structure PKM is actually hoping for.

 

[Stifle Tower]

What about the Nick Collison precedent where putting the signing bonus all into the first year's cap space allows teams to structure deals to be tremendously front-loaded?

See: https://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/22025/inside-collisons-unique-contract-extension

To the best of my knowledge this did not change with the most recent CBA. Sounds to me like this is the kind of structure PKM is actually hoping for.

Wow, great find.
I admit I've read quite a bit of the "Bible" on the cap (Larry Coon's page) and did not realize there was this loophole. Wonder if this can be done with Kanter or Burks since they are eligible for extensions now.

 

[BTP]

As his attempts (and years in the league) have increased, so have his percentages

Steph Curry per 36(makes, attempts,pct): 3.3 7.8 .424
Bradley Beal:2.0 4.9 .402
Klay Thompson:2.8 6.7 .417 <- he's also restricted next year.
Alec Burks:0.8 2.3 .350

This is the worst kind of "analysis." You started with the conclusion and then worked backwards to try and eliminate possibilities.

The reality is that next summer is the Kevin Love summer and teams are operating under the assumption that the cap will rise to close to $68 million for 2015-2016. This means lots of teams are putting themselves in the position to either have max cap room under that new cap number or to get there somewhat easily.

That means teams like the Blazers that you cite a $56.5 million cap hold for are much closer to max cap than you're letting on. Even a team like OKC will only have a cap figure of $51.4 and have $17 million in cap room basically just because Kendrick Perkins finally comes off the books and the only guy they have due for an extension is Reggie Jackson. Being at all forward thinking it's not hard to imagine OKC generating max cap room while being able to keep all their guys (with maybe Nick Collison excepted).

Some teams, like the Kings, have cap sheets so clear that they could theoretically max TWO guys next offseason. The Celtics might be able to max THREE if they play their cards right.

In sum, the conclusion that no one has cap space next season so our cap space is valueless is ludicrous.

They could(prolly shouldn't). But still there's 20 free agents on 10 teams, instead of 10 free agents on 15 teams.

Blazers:
Robin Lopez $9.2M
LaMarcus Aldridge $16.8M
Dorell Wright $4.1M
Joel Freeland $5.7M
Wesley Matthews $10.9M
Victor Claver $2.6M
Will Barton $1.2M
T-Rob $4.6M+ don't know how its being calculated when a team option is declined during rookie contracts.

salaries:
Batum 12.2M
Lillard 4.2M
McCollum 2.5M
Leonard 3.0M

Add at least 1 more min contract to fill min roster spots. $0.5M

This results in a cap hold of $77.5M before you start renouncing rights to certain players, sign them to new contracts and stuff. Figure out yourself.

OKC:

Kevin Durant $20.2M
Russell Westbrook $16.7M
Serge Ibaka $12.4M
Jeremy Lamb $3.0M
Steven Adams $2.3M
Mitch McGary $1,4M
Andre Roberson $1.2M
Perry Jones III $2.0M
Josh Huestis $1M

$60.2M guaranteed contracts

cap holds:
Kendrick Perkins $14.1M
Reggie Jackson $5.5M
Nick Collison $4.3M

All numbers via basketballinsiders.com and storytellerscontracts.info

Now figure out how flexible they're going to be not using exceptions and staying over the cap.

I agree kinda but feel paul george is overpaid a little too

Yeah this shows again a point for which I called out in the past and you said I misinterpreted your statements. You focus only on offense and individual plays.
#defensewinschampionships

 

[BTP]

Link? A little googling on my end seems to indicate that the rule was introduced by owners to allow them to match offers to non-Bird restricted free agents, which makes more sense given that that's exactly what the exception does.

It's probably worth pointing out that Wes Matthews' cap hit in seasons 2 and 3 was greater than the salary of the #1 overall pick from his draft class, which was less than the midlevel exception. He was actually paid about $10mm in his first year in Portland because he was given a signing bonus.

Given all this information, your story doesn't make any sense. Not that it matters.

Ye, I was wrong about that seemingly. #memoryisntperfect

 

[fishonjazz]

Steph Curry per 36(makes, attempts,pct): 3.37.8.424
Bradley Beal:2.04.9.402
Klay Thompson:2.86.7.417 <- he's also restricted next year.
Alec Burks:0.82.3.350

Your point?

Alec has shot better as he has got more attempts and minutes.

Also is a much better player than those guys at getting the hoop/line and finishing through contact

 

[fishonjazz]

You focus only on offense and individual plays.

wrong

#defensewinschampionships

I thought the spurs were better offensively than defensively.

Same with the showtime lakers.

Imo, a combination of offense and defense win championships..... with the exception of the baltimore ravens from a while ago

 

[BTP]

Your point?

Alec has shot better as he has got more attempts and minutes.

Also is a much better player than those guys at getting the hoop/line and finishing through contact

Welp it was about shooting. I said he wasn't a good shooter. People misinterpreted that. I said, he's an opportunistic shooter, and compared his frequency and accuracy with Great shooters. And there's a lot between them.

 

[cowhide]

Deng hasn't signaled interest until now and doesn't fit the championship window. I'd say yes to Luol because I both like him as a player and as a person. But not instead of Gordon, but on top of him. Will do some calculations now.

One thing that I feel is a genereally accepted truth here:
Gordon's price tag doesn't deserve an upside component because he's got horrible measurements, mediocre athleticism and is a white player whose game depends more on skill and finesse.

I think his contract will be sub optimal but far from horrible from a value to price ratio

This has nothing to do with race or upside, it has to do with performance. Gordon has had four years to earn a max contract on his performance and he didn't do it. Regardless if he gets a max or not he still isn't worth it.

 

[BTP]

This has nothing to do with race or upside, it has to do with performance. Gordon has had four years to earn a max contract on his performance and he didn't do it. Regardless if he gets a max or not he still isn't worth it.

Well Charlotte disagrees. And I can see where they are coming from. GOrdon fills a position of need for them(SF) and they lack playmaking, one of Gordon's biggest strengths.
Also they have a defensive system in place that was functional with guys buying in despite not being individually elite. Hayward fitts that mold.

 

[cowhide]

Steph Curry per 36(makes, attempts,pct): 3.3 7.8 .424
Bradley Beal:2.0 4.9 .402
Klay Thompson:2.8 6.7 .417 <- he's also restricted next year.
Alec Burks:0.8 2.3 .350



They could(prolly shouldn't). But still there's 20 free agents on 10 teams, instead of 10 free agents on 15 teams.

Blazers:
Robin Lopez $9.2M
LaMarcus Aldridge $16.8M
Dorell Wright $4.1M
Joel Freeland $5.7M
Wesley Matthews $10.9M
Victor Claver $2.6M
Will Barton $1.2M
T-Rob $4.6M+ don't know how its being calculated when a team option is declined during rookie contracts.

salaries:
Batum 12.2M
Lillard 4.2M
McCollum 2.5M
Leonard 3.0M

Add at least 1 more min contract to fill min roster spots. $0.5M

This results in a cap hold of $77.5M before you start renouncing rights to certain players, sign them to new contracts and stuff. Figure out yourself.

OKC:

Kevin Durant $20.2M
Russell Westbrook $16.7M
Serge Ibaka $12.4M
Jeremy Lamb $3.0M
Steven Adams $2.3M
Mitch McGary $1,4M
Andre Roberson $1.2M
Perry Jones III $2.0M
Josh Huestis $1M

$60.2M guaranteed contracts

cap holds:
Kendrick Perkins $14.1M
Reggie Jackson $5.5M
Nick Collison $4.3M

All numbers via basketballinsiders.com and storytellerscontracts.info

Now figure out how flexible they're going to be not using exceptions and staying over the cap.



Yeah this shows again a point for which I called out in the past and you said I misinterpreted your statements. You focus only on offense and individual plays.
#defensewinschampionships

Just think if OKC hadn't wasted $14.2 million on Perkins who has given them very little they could have kept Harden with a little adjustment to their roster.

 

[cowhide]

Well Charlotte disagrees. And I can see where they are coming from. GOrdon fills a position of need for them(SF) and they lack playmaking, one of Gordon's biggest strengths.
Also they have a defensive system in place that was functional with guys buying in despite not being individually elite. Hayward fitts that mold.

Well then let Charlotte have him since they are so astute when it comes to evaluating talent. Still don't know what race has to do with it.