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Jazz at Clippers Dec 29--8:30

. . . except for his 0-rebound, 4-point, -1 net block (he logged zero, was blocked once) sleepwalk in Q1.

Pathetic. You will use absolutely anything, no matter how silly, to support your pro-Fesenko (or anti-Jefferson, I'm not quite sure anymore) agenda. You can't even admit that Al had a terrific game.

To even things up I'm going to discount every good Fesenko performance by pointing out the stretches in which he did not play well.
 
Definitely. I mean, Fesenko shot 100% tonight in those 7 minutes. That's probably close to #1 in the league.
Unfortunately your misplaced, empty, tangential hyperbole about Fesenko (which I have never claimed; only that his performance warrants >>10 MPG when he's doing well) does not take away from the fact that tonight's starting lineup started slow, again, and that Jefferson was among the biggest culprits, and that Fesenko was ahead of Jefferson in production and contribution when Fes was subbed out.

It does not mean that Fesenko could come anywhere near the production that Jefferson ended up with. It does suggest that Fesenko--in his brief cameo on the court--was a key part of a turnaround from the stagnation that the starters initiated.

Keep polishing, McFly. Whatever you're polishing.
 
Not exactly "bets" in my book, although to this point in the season, it has been safe to bet that Jefferson does dog it in Q1, and that Sloan does nothing about it more often than not.
.

As far as Al Jeff is concerned this is probably one of the best , if not THE best so far this season, his 1st quarter notwithstanding. I am not sure how you can deny it. My condolences that Fesenko got only 7 mins.
 
Pathetic. You will use absolutely anything, no matter how silly, to support your pro-Fesenko (or anti-Jefferson, I'm not quite sure anymore) agenda. You can't even admit that Al had a terrific game.
AJ did have a terrific game. For three quarters or less--which makes his production in those 3 quarters or less especially impressive. It does not excuse him from the first quarter laxity from him and his four friends in the starting lineup. No player, including Jefferson, deserves unbridled praise unless they have earned it.

And despite my most valiant efforts, you don't realize that I'm not pro-Fesenko. I'm pro sound lineups and in-game management. I'm anti-oblivious coaches who have gotten a free pass for 20 years on poor adjustments and overrated player development. Fesenko just happens to be Exhibit A right now of how Sloan's deficiencies of fundamental coaching prevents this team from being a contender.

Sloan's substitution stumblings were especially prominent tonight. Evans in to defend Griffin? Really?

Fesenko and Okur were catalysts for turning this game around. Okur was probably the bigger factor. Guess I'm not the Fesenko fan that your biased delusion might be telling you.

To even things up I'm going to discount every good Fesenko performance by pointing out the stretches in which he did not play well.
Unfortunately, more often than not, he has done well. When he does, I am willing to acknowledge it. And more often than not, Sloan has done nothing effective to stem the first-quarter slump.

Tonight's game was especially clear that the solution was height. I called it before the game, and Sloan eventually tripped into a lineup that worked, even though it was blatantly obvious a priori. Then, in the second half, Jefferson actually put forth effort--not that he would've lost minute if he hadn't, and poof! Utah started winning.

Perhaps Fesenko's biggest role (and maybe Elson's, too) is not just to rest the starting bigs but to show them that their minutes aren't a given. (The backup bigs' time certainly hasn't been, even in the face of respectable performances.) Utah would be soooo much better and would have a significantly better record if Sloan would analyze matchups, make sound adjustments (instead of going with his "gut"), and reward performance + effort. Maybe Utah can do some damage in the playoffs with a Okur-Jefferson-Millsap triumvirate at the 4/5, and only bit minutes from Elson or Fes. But Boozer + Okur (with cameos from bit-player bigs) wasn't enough, Okur is now slower (Slowkur), Jefferson averages playing 5/8 of his minutes well (just like tonight), and Millsap is undersized (effort and practice go only so far). A forward thinking coach would see that Utah is likely to face Gasol, Haywood, Nowitzki, Duncan, Chandler, O'Neal, Superman, and/or Bosh / LeBron, and would also recognize that a legitimate-defending center is usually a key piece of a title (unless you have Kobe or LBJ). Sloan has made little to no effort to develop Fesenko (or the backup bigs before him) even when the need for size--even against the Paper Clips--is so blatantly clear.

You missed a spot on the bumper, McFly.
 
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his performance warrants >>10 MPG when he's doing well
What, exactly, is "much, much greater than" as ">>" suggests? 20 mpg? 25? Projecting outward from tonight, he'd have fouled out in 21 minutes. That's simply not good enough. Nor is his other production going to counterbalance those trips to the line for the other team.

It does not mean that Fesenko could come anywhere near the production that Jefferson ended up with.
That must have particularly hurt to type for you. But we appreciate your candor.

It does suggest that Fesenko--in his brief cameo on the court--was a key part of a turnaround from the stagnation that the starters initiated.
I'll readily and happily admit that he held his own, but turnaround? I didn't see anything outside of the standard ebb and flow of a normal NBA game that would suggest that he was a catalyst for any game revolution.

Keep polishing, McFly. Whatever you're polishing.
You missed a spot on the bumper, McFly.
Such anger. So sad that someone of your tenaciousness needs to rely on it.
 
All did have terrific game. For three quarters or less--which makes his production in those 3 quarters or less especially impressive. It does not excuse him from the first quarter laxity from him and his four friends in the starting lineup. No player, including Jefferson, deserves unbridled praise unless they have earned it.
The first quarter struggles are a team issue, not a Jefferson issue. If you want to blame it on a player I'd sooner blame it on Bell than Jefferson. No doubt Al struggles in the first quarter often, but you're just being silly if you discount a strong performance because the stats didn't go up evenly over the 40 minutes he played.
 
Wow, nice game for Al and Gordon! I thought we got solid bench contributions from key players, with Memo looking more and more like his old self, and even Fesenko putting in some quality minutes to spell the starters. Crazy that Gordon played the whole second half! I love it! Are we finally starting to see a glimpse of the kind of player he's going to be for us? I think that Hayward could be starting for us at some point this season... possibly bringing Bell off the bench. The slow-starting first quarters continue to be frustrating for all, and you can't really put it on any one player, but you've got to give it to coach Sloan for sticking with them and letting them figure things out rather than panicking about it. 31 points, 10 boards, 3 blocks, and 2 assists for Big Al. And he is as close to money in crunch time as anyone else on the team. Keep working! Sooner rather than later, I'm certain that these glimpses will go from glimpses to the norm. Another W!
 
Also, it seems as though Jefferson and Hayward only show up on the road. There are far worse things and that projects well.
 
What, exactly, is "much, much greater than" as ">>" suggests? 20 mpg? 25? Projecting outward from tonight, he'd have fouled out in 21 minutes. That's simply not good enough. Nor is his other production going to counterbalance those trips to the line for the other team.
That's convenient; I have posted repeatedly that on a good night, Fesenko would smell the floor for 20 minutes. That's what ">>" means. Sorry that you have to resort to petty details given that you have little else to stand on following your overdose of haterade.

That must have particularly hurt to type for you. But we appreciate your candor.
Not really, because (1) I have acknowledged when Fes hasn't been the best player on the court before, and (2) Fes wasn't the sole spark in the turnaround anyway.

Too bad you have to resort again to such nitpicking when the reality is that Okur and Fesenko were part of the turnaround in this game. Despite that, Fes didn't even get 10 minutes. I recognize that it's gonna be increasingly tough for Fes and probably Frank, too, to get time now that Okur's back. Given that I'm not a Fes homer, I don't care, except that I'm skeptical that Okur as a backup big (without more contribution from someone else who is more than just a stopgap (Elson)) is enough for the playoffs.

I'll readily and happily admit that he held his own, but turnaround? I didn't see anything outside of the standard ebb and flow of a normal NBA game that would suggest that he was a catalyst for any game revolution.
Only that Utah was down double digits [edit: 9 points] when he came in, and that he was the only player with a positive +/- when he sat down. In other words, the Jazz went from stagnation to progress. Allowing the ineffective players (e.g., Jefferson) who subbed out to rest & reflect was part of the turnaround, but Fes did produce when he was in.

Such anger. So sad that someone of your tenaciousness needs to rely on it.
Not anger; it's actually gloating. Unlike you, I actually unveiled a plan before the game to stave off the conventional Q1 slump. Sloan doesn't even heed fundamental principles of coaching, much less this message board, so I didn't expect him to give it a try. The crux of the lineup adjustment was height. Sloan exposed himself further when he first subbed in a backup that he liked (Evans) instead of a player that would have been more effective (Okur or Fes; I would say Elson also, but he ended up having a Meh performance in very limited minutes).
 
i'm genuinely happy for Hayward. His hard work might be paying off. I'm glad that he played with confidence tonight and ripped the nets. He's taken a beating from us fans (deservedly so).

I truly hope he keeps knocking down those 3's... And keeping chucker on the bench.
 
The first quarter struggles are a team issue, not a Jefferson issue. If you want to blame it on a player I'd sooner blame it on Bell than Jefferson. No doubt Al struggles in the first quarter often, but you're just being silly if you discount a strong performance because the stats didn't go up evenly over the 40 minutes he played.
Marty, if you keep stopping your car polishing to interject incomplete arguments, you'll never get your work done.

Previously and repeatedly, I have posted at length how the primary problems with the starting lineup have been Jefferson and Bell. Tonight, Miles--the logical solution for Bell--was not available. However, there were several logical solutions for the feeble frontcourt starting the game. So your accusation is quite empty. Maybe it's the chemicals in the car wax.

My pregame plan was to put Millsap at the 3 to start because I wanted to get Millsap away from Griffin and thought that he could handle Bass easily. Instead, Sloan went with recent tradition (= his "gut" = his azz), minus the unavailable Kirilenko, and lo and behold, Millsap picks up a couple of fouls early. Then he puts in Evans, who weighs 30 to 60 pounds less than Griffin. There's no other way to describe that than poor in-game adjustments by the coaches. And Jefferson was doing little to mitigate the problem, given that he had zero rebounds in the first quarter of the game.
 
I'm not on here a lot. So I wonder...does InGameStategy ever stop B!tching?

You know, I really don't care if the jazz suck in the first quarter if they WIN THE GAME!
We just keep getting win after win after win. I don't care if they get shut out in the first quarter.
If the score after one is 25-0 in favor of the clippers, I DON'T CARE if the final score is 103-95.
 
That's convenient; I have posted repeatedly that on a good night, Fesenko would smell the floor for 20 minutes. That's what ">>" means. Sorry that you have to resort to petty details given that you have little else to stand on following your overdose of haterade.
No haterade here. Right now I'm on Guinness. You should try some to calm the ol' nerves. By the way, none of that answered my statement that Fes' fouling - which he has not learned to curb in several years of playing - could adequately counterbalance his "effectiveness" or "+/-" or whatever you subscribe to. Petty details aside (aren't you the one who makes a point of calling out people's misspellings?) of course.

(1) I have acknowledged when Fes hasn't been the best player on the court before, and (2) Fes wasn't the sole spark in the turnaround anyway.
(1) very true. (2) I'd say that Okur was dynamite tonight, to the extent that Fes' presence on the court and the timing of the Jazz' resurgence might be a coincidence.

Only that Utah was down double digits when he came in, and that he was the only player with a positive +/- when he sat down.
Undoubtedly I'm not going to remember the *exact* numbers, but as I recall, Utah was down 11 when he came in and was down 8 when he sat. Give or take. Again, I'd be led to believe that that is within the noise of the data. We'll have to agree to disagree there.

I actually unveiled a plan
I like that you can do nothing about this. In my whiniest kid's voice, I'm going to end by saying "Sloan's the coach and you're not!"

Jesting aside, if you are so convinced of your armchair coaching grandeur, why haven't you started coaching juco or something? Might be interesting to see how your X's and O's match up against real coaches.

I'm out for the night. Last word is yours if you have to have it.
 
My pregame plan was to put Millsap at the 3 to start because I wanted to get Millsap way from Griffin and thought that he could handle Bass easily. Instead, Sloan went with recent tradition (= his "gut" = his azz), minus the unavailable Kirilenko, and lo and behold, Millsap picks up a couple of fouls early. Then he puts in Evans, who weighs 30 to 60 pounds less than Griffin. There's no other way to describe that than poor in-game adjustments by the coaches. And Jefferson was doing little to mitigate the problem, given that he had zero rebounds in the first quarter of the game.
Your thinking that matchups and your crush are the only way to win games is asinine and can only be eclipsed by how hard your arguments fail. Millsap is not a 3, there's no one on the Clippers named Bass, and you homer Fes harder than anyone Sloan has ever homered for. Your hypocrisy is only eclipsed by your mind-numbing, broken-record neurosis.
 
I'm not on here a lot. So I wonder...does InGameStategy ever stop B!tching?

You know, I really don't care if the jazz suck in the first quarter if they WIN THE GAME!
We just keep getting win after win after win. I don't care if they get shut out in the first quarter.
If the score after one is 25-0 in favor of the clippers, I DON'T CARE if the final score is 103-95.
The problem is, Craig, that such a performance isn't going to work against a contender. It has failed against the Blazers, Mavs, Spurs, and even Warriors, to name a few.

When people are glowing over Jefferson's strong performance tonight, there's nothing wrong with keeping the enthusiasm in check by pointing out the conventional contrast between Q1 and the rest of the game. Besides, there really shouldn't be a need for a big celebration against a team that has barely managed 10 wins. The promising performance tonight (big improvements by Hayward and Okur, for example) isn't good enough against a contender.

It wasn't until the apologist patrol appeared that I laid down the hammer. Sorry that you're a secondary casualty.
 
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Your thinking that matchups and your crush are the only way to win games is asinine and can only be eclipsed by how hard your arguments fail. Millsap is not a 3, there's no one on the Clippers named Bass, and you homer Fes harder than anyone Sloan has ever homered for. Your hypocrisy is only eclipsed by your mind-numbing, broken-record neurosis.
Um, yes, matchups are pretty fundamental to a coach's responsibility. Probably in the top 3 or 5 responsibilities. So I don't apologize for pounding the table for responsible in-game adjustments, of which tonight in the first quarter was a tragic opposite.

I keep telling haters/apologist like you that I'm not a Fesenko homer. If the other bigs prove to be able to control the paint and beat contenders (and bottom feeders convincintly) without him, I have no problem with Fesenko never seeing the floor again. Unfortunately, Jefferson has really underperformed in the eyes of many fans in that regard. Millsap has been a pleasant positive, but his limitations only allow him to go so far. Same goes for Elson and maybe Okur.
 
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