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Jazz at Clippers Dec 29--8:30

InGameStrategy said:
The problem is, Craig, that such a performance isn't going to work against a contender. I has failed against the Blazers, Mavs, Spurs, and even Warriors, to name a few.
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So sub Fesenko in place of Jefferson and make Millsap defend Bass(no matter which team he plays for) and suddenly we are good enough to beat the Lakers and Spurs? Wow, who knew that it would be this easy

So, It is all about matchups and rotations. Play the matchups Armchairstrategy wants you to play and you can beat any team. Simple.

And anytime we lose to Spurs or Lakers it is ONLY because of poor matchups and rotations. Not because they could be, um, just a better team.
 
InGameStrategy said:
The problem is, Craig, that such a performance isn't going to work against a contender. I has failed against the Blazers, Mavs, Spurs, and even Warriors, to name a few.

When people are glowing over Jefferson's strong performance tonight, there's nothing wrong with keeping the enthusiasm in check by pointing out the conventional contrast between Q1 and the rest of the game. Besides, there really shouldn't be a need for a big celebration against a team that has barely managed 10 wins. The promising performance tonight (big improvements by Hayward and Okur, for example) isn't good enough against a contender.

It wasn't until the apologist patrol appeared that I laid down the hammer. Sorry that you're a secondary casualty.
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Uh, did it work against the Heat, Lakers...blah blah blah

I see you as a glass-half-empty kind of guy.
The jazz are winning games. No I guess they aren't undefeated, and they have lost a few. But this is the first year that the jazz are beating teams on the road like this. 11-4 on the road. Say that a few times. It's AWESOME!
22-10 overall and an easy schedule coming up. This is the good times.
I will be happy that Jeff and Hay stepped up and had great games. Are you only gonna be happy with wins over the best teams?
 
vj_74 said:
Why is'nt there anyone on the Clippers named Bass? It is all Sloan's fault.
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You're right; lazy posting on my part. Bass, Gomes, Millsap. All undersized tweener forwards. Point remains, though, and it really doesn't affect the argument. What you have really uncovered is another way that the Jazz could attack the Mavs: let Millsap play against the real Bass and let the bigs handle/hack/annoy/frustrate Nowitski. When Dork gets pushed around a bit, he melts quickly. Millsap, although strong, doesn't fit the bill because he can't bother the shot without fouling.
 
Teams are gonna lose games. If you win 60 games, that is a FANTASTIC season, right?
Well, it also means you lose 22 games. That's like losing every night for almost a month.

The thing is, in years past, the jazz struggled to win 18 or 10 road games. They would cough it up to bad teams and play like crap and show little effort or care.
Now we have a team that is winning most of the games they should. Yes, they lost at home to Porty the other night. But those kinds of losses have been few and far between this year.
Hey, where were we last year at this time? Certainly not 22-10 or anywhere close
 
craig2112 said:
Uh, did it work against the Heat, Lakers...blah blah blah

I see you as a glass-half-empty kind of guy.
The jazz are winning games. No I guess they aren't undefeated, and they have lost a few. But this is the first year that the jazz are beating teams on the road like this. 11-4 on the road. Say that a few times. It's AWESOME!
22-10 overall and an easy schedule coming up. This is the good times.
I will be happy that Jeff and Hay stepped up and had great games. Are you only gonna be happy with wins over the best teams?
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I'm happy with the win tonight, but I think that some people are too happy about it. It might not be good enough against the contenders.

BTW, those Heat and Laker wins were when those teams were not at their best. Utah's performance tonight probably wouldn't have beaten either of those teams. Just curbing enthusiasm here. If you want to enjoy your win better, then stop challenging my arguments.

And yes, I do focus very heavily on Sloan's coaching, because I look at the game through a coach's (manager's) lenses. Many fans prefer to follow the game more from a player's or GM's perspective. I'm not gonna let Sloan's first-quarter disaster or the starting lineup's sluggishness be swept under the rug despite the favorable outcome. Okur and Hayward were very promising tonight, and so was Jefferson--when he got around to it.
 
craig2112 said:
Teams are gonna lose games. If you win 60 games, that is a FANTASTIC season, right?
Well, it also means you lose 22 games. That's like losing every night for almost a month.

The thing is, in years past, the jazz struggled to win 18 or 10 road games. They would cough it up to bad teams and play like crap and show little effort or care.
Now we have a team that is winning most of the games they should. Yes, they lost at home to Porty the other night. But those kinds of losses have been few and far between this year.
Hey, where were we last year at this time? Certainly not 22-10 or anywhere close
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I don't have problem with the losses in which the coaching staff implements an effective strategy both before and during the game--and the players don't bury themselves in the first quarter. To me, the number in which both of those things have happened are very few. With better coaching (and player preparation, too) Utah should be a 5 or 6-loss team right now--and that's being conservative.
 
InGameStrategy said:
I don't have problem with the losses in which the coaching staff implements an effective strategy both before and during the game--and the players don't bury themselves in the first quarter. To me, the number in which both of those things have happened are very few. With better coaching (and player preparation, too) Utah should be a 5 or 6-loss team right now--and that's being conservative.
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In other words, if Sloan took your coaching 101 classes, we would be on pace to win 70+games and be No.1 in the WEstern conference. Never mind the talent we have. It is all matchups and rotations.

Give any roster to Armchairstrategy and he'll make them contend with just good in-game substitutions.
We all know that already. You dont have to end every argument or dicussion on this reminder.
 
And if the Jazz DID have only 5 or 6 losses at this point, you'll still be saying that they should have been a zero-loss team if only Sloan had the right strategy.
 
InGameStrategy said:
I'm happy with the win tonight, but I think that some people are too happy about it. It might not be good enough against the contenders.
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So most fans have come here to high-five each other after a win and you stand up and refuse to give the high five becuase the win tonight 'might' not have been good enough against other teams?

In real life, we don't ever invite you to the party. Thanks for ruining my trip to JazzFanz this evening.
 
I was at the game tonight and surprised to find out there are actually quite a few of Jazz fans here in LA.

It was good to be present in a game in which Jefferson and Hayward had their best game of the season. In this night Millsap got into foul trouble early, they turn to Jefferson inside and let him create. As dominant as Blake Griffin was, they had no answer for Big Al.

Great to see Hayward stepping up with AK and CJ out. He was off early but once he got that 3 and the 2 FTs early in the third, he is so much more confident and poised. Hopefully he keeps it up the rest of the season.
 
InGameStrategy said:
You're right; lazy posting on my part. Bass, Gomes, Millsap. All undersized tweener forwards. Point remains, though, and it really doesn't affect the argument. What you have really uncovered is another way that the Jazz could attack the Mavs: let Millsap play against the real Bass and let the bigs handle/hack/annoy/frustrate Nowitski. When Dork gets pushed around a bit, he melts quickly. Millsap, although strong, doesn't fit the bill because he can't bother the shot without fouling.
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Doesn't Bass play for Orlando? The Mavs start Caron Butler as their small forward... We should probably leave the rotations to Sloan.
 
Rublev said:
Hayward is showing such a beautiful stroke.
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A certain Jazzfanz member's mother showed me a beautiful stroke last night as well.

BTW, even if Hayward had a poor game last night, I think he has me sold for good with his play yesterday. He hustled like mad and looked really explosive taking it to the basket on a couple of plays. The kid has no fear and I really love that. Put me in the camp that thinks he could be something special down the road.

Also, 'grats to the Jazz for proving me wrong. I was not expecting this win. Tonight's gonna be mad crazy.
 
ingamestrategy said:
i'm happy with the win tonight, but i think that some people are too happy about it. It might not be good enough against the contenders.

Btw, those heat and laker wins were when those teams were not at their best. Utah's performance tonight probably wouldn't have beaten either of those teams. Just curbing enthusiasm here. If you want to enjoy your win better, then stop challenging my arguments.

And yes, i do focus very heavily on sloan's coaching, because i look at the game through a coach's (manager's) lenses. Many fans prefer to follow the game more from a player's or gm's perspective. I'm not gonna let sloan's first-quarter disaster or the starting lineup's sluggishness be swept under the rug despite the favorable outcome. Okur and hayward were very promising tonight, and so was jefferson--when he got around to it.
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ingamestrategy said:
i'm happy with the win tonight, but i think that some people are too happy about it. It might not be good enough against the contenders.

we've beaten the lakers, magic, heat, hornets, and thunder over this 32 game stretch... And we beat the heat, magic, and thunder in their backyard... You can't win them all ingame..

btw, those heat and laker wins were when those teams were not at their best. Utah's performance tonight probably wouldn't have beaten either of those teams. Just curbing enthusiasm here. If you want to enjoy your win better, then stop challenging my arguments.

actually when the jazz played the lakers, they were playing their best basketball at the time, now they've tapered off and have been losing games in the month of december... And actually, the heat weren't playing bad at the time either... It was our comeback victory that kind of sent them into a tailspin, or at least it seemed that way... I would also say we destroyed new orleans and they haven't been the same since... And we played them when they were red hot!

and yes, i do focus very heavily on sloan's coaching, because i look at the game through a coach's (manager's) lenses. Many fans prefer to follow the game more from a player's or gm's perspective. I'm not gonna let sloan's first-quarter disaster or the starting lineup's sluggishness be swept under the rug despite the favorable outcome. Okur and hayward were very promising tonight, and so was jefferson--when he got around to it.

yeah, okur scored some points and he's still got the prettiest shot for a big man that i've ever seen... But he looked as if he took boozer 101 on the defensive end of the court... It was funny because boler asked tyrone corbin at half about a couple of players, and of the players mentioned, he said they were playing physical defense, and then when it came to okur, he kind of fumbled his words because he knew he couldn't say that about okur...

Jefferson has come through for us when it mattered down the stretch in many games this year... I would rather have a player like that then somebody who scores 18 in the 1st quarter just to fizzle out and choke in the 4th... :cough: Boozer :cough:

Oh and by the way... A good coach uses games like this in the regular season to experiment with lineups that are going to help him in the more important games down the stretch... This is good coaching and right now, sloan is trying to figure out some favorable lineups with memo back in the mix... Hey, at least he isn't letting gordon rot on the bench like he would 10 years ago... So give the guy a little credit, he's expanded his coaching philosophy over the years and is still one of the best strategic coaches in the league... I swear, every time this guy calls a timeout or we go to half i can tell that serious strategic adjustments were made... Either we come out in a zone (which okur is horrible in), or we expose a matchup, etc that gets this team going and before you know it we're on an 11-2 run or something like that...

Did you see how he completely took griffin out of the game in the 3rd and 4th (all the way up until the end when the game was over and it really didn't matter)... That is coaching... He stuck 3 guys in the vicinity of griffin, and counted on other guys to miss shots... You live and die by the 3 pointer, and even though guys like amino were red hot from 3 in the 1st half, he went ice cold in the 2nd... And the clippers missed quite a few threes which led to easy jazz baskets at the other end... He also shored up our rebounding in the 2nd half and we did better...

That, ingame, is coaching... I've seen a lot of bad coaches being a vikings fan, so i know a little bit about this... You can always tell when adjustments are actually made, or more importantly, adjustments that are effective are made... Not to mention, sloan has got to be one of the best motivators that i've ever seen... To get a team to work hard to come back in games is not an easy thing to do... He has them believing they can come back, because if they didn't they would flounder towards the end and fizzle out...

Say what you want about jerry sloan, but i say he's solid and easily the best coach in the league right now... And yes, i know you're probably going to want to throw phil jackson at me... But tell me... When has that guy ever took a job in which he's had to rebuild a team from the ground up?? Did he really even build the bulls?? I think they may have already been up and comers before he got there... Players like michael jordan rarely emerge because of good coaching, it's usually god given talent... Yet sloan turns garbage into fine wine time and time again... Shandon anderson, chris morris, jeff foster, greg ostertag, antoine carr, maurice williams, deshawn stevenson, etc... I could go on and on here... When these guys left the jazz, most of them did little to nothing! Does phil do that?? No, he's a coach that knows how to keep a bunch of egos playing together without it blowing up into one big brawl between them... Which is also not an easy thing to do, but honestly, i think sloan could do it too if given the chance...
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jmo
 
vj_74 said:
In other words, if Sloan took your coaching 101 classes, we would be on pace to win 70+games and be No.1 in the WEstern conference. Never mind the talent we have. It is all matchups and rotations.

Give any roster to Armchairstrategy and he'll make them contend with just good in-game substitutions.
We all know that already. You dont have to end every argument or dicussion on this reminder.
Click to expand...

Someone get Greg Miller on the line.
 
Pretty amazing: IGS points out a solution to the Jazz's two big problems this season, slow starts and size, and gets ripped up one side and down the other. Everyone, including Sloan, acknowledge the problem yet Jerry has made how many adjustments to combat it? 0 (zero). None. Nada. Zip. Keeps throwing the pre-ordained starting 5 out there night in, night out, and watches them night in, night out go down by 10 to 15 very quickly. Sure, they have done a sensational job of coming back and getting wins but the slow starts and lack of rebounding are still a major problem. You do not get to ringland with those problems.

When Sloan keeps up with this inattention to consistent and persistent problems, the Jazz will get dumped out of the playoffs again in the 1st or 2nd round 1-4 against the Laker, Spurs, or Mavs. The wailing here will be loud and long. But of course, it won't be ole Jer's fault, nope, no way.
 
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