"Williams Brothers" remarks Racist?

[moevillini]

Its not "how" and "someone", it's the cultural memes surrounding us and this particular person with no history of violence.

First of all , I still, after repeated attempts to explain it to me, have no clue about the concept of memes. It's gibberish to me.

Secondly, the basic idea of something being scary "to look at" implies there is no known history of violence. If there was, you'd simply call it scary and not waste time saying it was scary to "look at"

At any rate, if we have to categorize these comments as any sort of "isn" they are much closer to sexism than they are to racism.

And at least we can't blame this on Obama. It's all Dutch's fault.

 

[DutchJazzer]

Disagree.

At least it seems as though you're implying that any insult against a person of color, regardless of the reason, is racist simply because they are a person of color.

as soon as you hurt a african american they pull out the prepaid racecard

 

[gregbroncs]

Its not "how" and "someone", it's the cultural memes surrounding us and this particular person with no history of violence.

The point is that if the Williams sisters were Hispanic, they wouldn't have been described as scary.

And you know this how? No don't answer. I get it. You think that because it fits with your POV. It's not based in reality or logic, It's just the way you think it is. Which makes you sound like more of a racist to me that the person who made the original statement. You assumed it was because of color (without caring about context) that makes you overly zealous in calling it racist (which is almost as bad to me as actually being racist)

 

[DutchJazzer]

Everyone is missing the point. This is about gender fluidity. They were just referred to in a gender-fluid way that is completely fine, as gender doesn't really exist.

so it is a form of querism

 

[DutchJazzer]

First of all , I still, after repeated attempts to explain it to me, have no clue about the concept of memes. It's gibberish to me.

Secondly, the basic idea of something being scary "to look at" implies there is no known history of violence. If there was, you'd simply call it scary and not waste time saying it was scary to "look at"

At any rate, if we have to categorize these comments as any sort of "isn" they are much closer to sexism than they are to racism.

And at least we can't blame this on Obama. It's all Dutch's fault.

Blame BUSH then

 

[moevillini]

as soon as you hurt a african american they pull out the prepaid racecard

It might not be prepaid. Maybe they're going Dutch.

 

[One Brow]

Are you implying that no Hispanic person has been called scary by a non-Hispanic person?

Are you really asking if, when referring to a female tennis player with no history of violence, I mean that it extends to every single member of a given group? I don't think you are that dull. It seems more likely you are obfuscating.

Also, while I'm not deeply versed in Russian culture, I don't think they have a lot of cultural associations regarding Hispanic people.

 

[One Brow]

I bet if you look on the underside of your post you'll see a bunch of purple lines, because this is a huge ****ing stretch.

No doubt you'll be able to find numerous examples of Russians describing female Hispanic athletes as scary, and show me what a stretch that was. Let me know when you do. Or, just make vague, unsupported comments of disbelief because you don't like a particular idea. Either way.

 

[One Brow]

I honestly think there are times you too hard. I don't doubt you are a great dude looking to better the world, and I usually see your point of view, even if I don't always agree. But to me, this time, it's just too much of a stretch.

Like WAY too much.

Because you think calling the Williams sisters scary is a perfectly reasonable reaction?

 

[One Brow]

Hahahaha

I know you have failed to change my mind, and perhaps that is me. On the other hand, perhaps it is just that you refuse to bring in evidence to any discussion, and rely on denial and disbelief as the core of your argumentation. When you bring evidence, you can change my mind.

 

[One Brow]

I'm sure this dude thought/thinks Amelie Mauresmo was scary looking too

If you are so sure, find a quote where he (or anyone else) says so.

 

[DutchJazzer]

Because you think calling the Williams sisters scary is a perfectly reasonable reaction?

maybe not reasonable. but certainly not racist

 

[One Brow]

Don't even bother with todays libs, in their mind every white man and woman are racists.

The word "white" is not needed in that sentence, except that it makes your whining more pronounced.

Ask him if he would've assumed that it was racism if a black male called a white female scary.

There are legitimately scary people of all races. Serena Williams is not among them. You could choose words like formidable, powerful, or even intimidating instead; these words would be common choices in sports.

 

[Gameface]

Because you think calling the Williams sisters scary is a perfectly reasonable reaction?

They are a couple of huge athletic women, that's for damn sure.

 

[One Brow]

I thought Billie Jean King was scary to look at back in her playing days. ... Most guys just think big, muscular women are unattractive. While I would never make the same comment that guy did, I fall into that category: fit and toned is attractive to me, big/bodybuilder not at all, especially when that women also starts looking like a man. The Williams sisters, IMO, have always fallen more towards the latter category.

Unattractive =/= scary. Perhaps you'll take the time to find some quotes from public figures who referred to King or Mauresmo as scary?

 

[Stoked]

I know you have failed to change my mind, and perhaps that is me. On the other hand, perhaps it is just that you refuse to bring in evidence to any discussion, and rely on denial and disbelief as the core of your argumentation. When you bring evidence, you can change my mind.

Do not pretend that you enter any of these conversations without your mind already made up on race. I just found you hitting someone for the same to be funny. I am quite content to let you blame racism for everything. Even in your condescending way.

 

[One Brow]

I don't buy it. It is entirely possible that the guy meant it in a racist way, but there is nothing inherently racist about the statement. I don't recall a stereotype of black people having a scary face. If that exists, then I've never heard of it. The hateful misconception that I do know, is of black people being scary because they are violent/criminal. I think it requires too long a reach for that position to be worth defending.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, but you're saying that the meme is often focused on the supposed criminality of black people, that when people talk about their faces, this meme is in no fashion invoked? That seems to rely on a very inhuman model of cognition. When we see an image, there are a host of association that the image brings to mind, even if they don't all come to the level of conscious thought. When we are speaking very carefully, sometimes we can divorce one aspect from the other, but in off-the-cuff speech, it's very unlikely that we are able to do so; this process requires effort. This comment reinforces a stereotype in the listener that "black" = 'scary".

 

[One Brow]

First of all , I still, after repeated attempts to explain it to me, have no clue about the concept of memes. It's gibberish to me.

Are you asking for an explanation of the concept, or just discounting it as a possible factor?

At any rate, if we have to categorize these comments as any sort of "isn" they are much closer to sexism than they are to racism.

Is there any reason it can't be both?

 

[bigb]

Because you think calling the Williams sisters scary is a perfectly reasonable reaction?

I certainly don't consider it racist. There are a ton of white women that I would say are scary to look at. Is that racist?

 

[One Brow]

And you know this how? No don't answer. I get it. You think that because it fits with your POV.

I answer that way because it doesn't happen. Feel free to dig out some quotes saying otherwise.

It's not based in reality or logic, It's just the way you think it is. Which makes you sound like more of a racist to me that the person who made the original statement. You assumed it was because of color (without caring about context) that makes you overly zealous in calling it racist (which is almost as bad to me as actually being racist)

You could whine harder if you tried. It won't be any more effective in showing me that I'm wrong, but you'll get a lot more sympathy from your fellow posters.