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Are We Worse Than Last Season?

GVC said:
This new mantra is overstated IMO. People hated RJ and had mixed feelings about Marvin. Sure, they don't have the same veteran presence (other than Novak), but the young guys are a year older and the Jazz have arguably better depth this season than last:

Evans, Marvin, RJ, Garrett ===> Gobert, Booker, Hood, Ingles, Exum (plus Evans and Novak)
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Better depth talent wise sure. Not better experience wise.

Look at all the stupid mistakes they make. Yes the core are a year older but as a group are still very young.

I think this team is better than last years. I'm just not upset that it will take time to show.
 
Hayward, Favors, and Gobert are the only players to make significant improvements from last year. And Gobert still can't see enough time on the court because of his hands and the poor floor spacing he provides.

Kanter has gotten slightly better.

Burke is pretty much the exact same player from last year.

Burks has regressed, though I think he was on the verge of figuring it out. Not sure how much the shoulder will hold him back.

Exum is a ****ty backup PG right now. Garret was much better last year.

Hood of this year is worse than Jefferson of last year.

Marvin Williams > Joe Ingles.

Kanter as a backup PF > Booker as a backup PF


So yeah, I would say we are worse this year until Burks/Kanter/Burke make some improvements, Favors decides to bring it every night, Exum learns how to score, or Gobert starts being able to play more minutes while not hurting us too bad offensively.
 
fufo said:
Still, I think Hayward's playing better than 80 percent of this forum expected.

Considering Parsons' struggles, Hayward's better shooting, game winning plays he made early this season.

Hayward's much better than i thought he would be this season.


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Agreed
 
GVC said:
The young players got loads of minutes last season, but their performance was all Ty's fault, according to the average Jazzfanz poster. The truth is, talent reveals itself pretty quickly, and these guys simply aren't as good as many thought.
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This. The realization sucks. We all thought (myself included) that a favors/kanter front court would be better than big al/Paul... the combo has turned out to be a total bust. Add that to Burke's (and burks') underperformance the truth hurts, doesn't it? Bright side for me has been Hayward. Albeit I still think he's not a max player nor a #1 option, he has exceeded my expectations.
 
Stoked said:
Better depth talent wise sure. Not better experience wise.

Look at all the stupid mistakes they make. Yes the core are a year older but as a group are still very young.

I think this team is better than last years. I'm just not upset that it will take time to show.
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I thought I heard that jazz starting lineup is the youngest in the league or something
 
Cy said:
Hayward, Favors, and Gobert are the only players to make significant improvements from last year. And Gobert still can't see enough time on the court because of his hands and the poor floor spacing he provides.

Kanter has gotten slightly better.

Burke is pretty much the exact same player from last year.

Burks has regressed, though I think he was on the verge of figuring it out. Not sure how much the shoulder will hold him back.

Exum is a ****ty backup PG right now. Garret was much better last year.

Hood of this year is worse than Jefferson of last year.

Marvin Williams > Joe Ingles.

Kanter as a backup PF > Booker as a backup PF


So yeah, I would say we are worse this year until Burks/Kanter/Burke make some improvements, Favors decides to bring it every night, Exum learns how to score, or Gobert starts being able to play more minutes while not hurting us too bad offensively.
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Great post.
Can't argue against any of it
 
l Abach l said:
Bright side for me has been Hayward. Albeit I still think he's not a max player nor a #1 option, he has exceeded my expectations.
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I agree.
He was playing like a good 3rd option of a contender.
Now i can comfortably say he can be a great number two option.
In other words, he can be the "Monta" right next to Dirk. A "Dirk" is needed though.


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The journey is darkest half-way through the tunnel.

Rebuilding is rough, and it's about now in the rebuilding process when most teams panic and start making trades for vets. I see progress in how the team is playing. We got younger this year than we were last year. Hayward is playing better, Gorbert is turning into a monster, and at least the ball is moving this year. Our defense is just as bad as last year and will be as long as Kanter cant' cover my dead grandmother and Burke cant' stay in front of any pg.
 
Could be these guys just aren't as talented as we thought, but they also deserve more games than they've played together under a new coach to "get it" and keep their heads together. But our bench has been stinking up the court. :p

I think Snyder is a good coach and that we have some very talented players. But those BAD 2nd quarters are killing us. Without those, we would have one some of these last 9 because we came back so well in the 2nd half. IIRC, past Jazz teams (and presumably several other NBA teams) have had the same issue with certain quarters being awful. No idea why, but it happens. Last night was a little better.

I still think we end up better that last year, but maybe not by much. I do see positive things happening, and Hayward has definitely been better. They gotta find a swagger to really start playing together, but it's hard to find when you're 1. SO YOUNG and 2. Losing. They came into the season having won more in preseason than expected, and probably felt pretty good about themselves, so they played like it. But you lose a couple, get down on yourself, get into bad habits, and you're in the downward spiral. Pulling themselves out of that is probably mental in large part, but they gotta find their spark to get going again. IMO, it's gotta be defense that does it. They were playing much better defense early on than they are now.
 
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fishonjazz said:
Great post.
Can't argue against any of it
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He's framed it very strangely to reach a certain conclusion. Look at the players lost v. players gained in the rotation. It's difficult to see a huge change in quality, especially with the young players having an extra year under their belts:

Guards
Burke(+1 year)-Burks(+1 year)-Exum v. Burke-Burks-Garrett

Wings
Hayward(+1 year)-Hood-Ingles v. Hayward-RJ

Bigs
Favors(+1 year)-Kanter(+1 year)-Booker-Gobert v. Favors-Kanter-Marvin-Evans

Is Exum a bigger downgrade from Garrett than the upgrade in experience for Burke and Burks?
Is RJ a big enough upgrade over Hood+Ingles to make up for the strides Gordo has made?
Is Booker-Gobert really worse than Marvin-Evans? Even with the extra experience for Kanter and Favors?

The team is at least as talented/deep as last year's team (especially with Novak's ability to provide spot minutes as a shooter). Quin is doing what people on this board wanted, playing Burke-Burks-Gordo-Kanter-Favors together, trying to push the ball, and emphasizing ball movement and outside shooting. It isn't working. It's gotten to the point that many on this board are now clamoring for a return to Corbin's lineups and strategy (i.e. moving burks and Kanter to the bench to balance the lineup, and working the ball inside out). It's ****ing hilarious.
 
In my opinion, I think Burke is the major problem. Not only is he a sieve on defense, but he's a shoot-first point guard who is a terrible shooter. I can't believe all the open looks he gets. It seems the only ones he makes are clutch shots that no one expects him to make because he has already missed so many wide-open shots.
 
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