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When will Hayward surpass AK47 as the 2nd best Jazz SF of All Time?

Joncolton said:
I would add that AK was an EXTREMELY better passer. Possibly the 2nd best passer in Jazz history. Also, AK's 5x5 games were something all-league extraordinary. He probably could have had 5 times as many 5x5 games too, except usually when he close to having one doing so would put the Jazz at a 20+ point advantage and he'd get to sit the 4th.

Also, AK was 3x NBA All-Defensive team. Hayward will probably never earn that honor.

So, it depends on how you rank the best SF of All-Time. To my mind, it's not simply a matter of stats, but who do you pick for the head-to-head matchup if you want your team to win the game? For my money it's AK, because he's going to shut down a lot of what Hayward tries to do.
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I would take Hayward in a head to head matchup. He is a good defender and much better all around offensive player. Prime AK might slow down Hayward but he will still score and make plays for his team and demand extra attention. AK was a much better weakside/help defender than a 1v1 guy. Hayward could potentially shut down AK on the other end. AK is not strong enough to do much against Hayward in the post and isnt fast enough or have enough handle to consistently drive by him. AK also was never a good enough shooter to space the floor. I loved AK but he was maybe our 3rd or even 4th most important player behind Deron, Boozer and maybe even Memo when our team was actually good. If you put prime Hayward on those teams back then we are a much better team.
 
AK had some flashy passing and made some dope plays. He was really fun to watch.

Hayward is light-years ahead of him at playing basketball.
 
I think AK v Hayward is close, but the one thing I take from this thread is people have forgotten how good AK was.
 
margodydek said:
I think AK v Hayward is close, but the one thing I take from this thread is people have forgotten how good AK was.
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Or others have rose colored glasses and remember the good stuff from him and not that he disappeared all the time and pouted for almost 5 years straight and never got better after getting paid. We also are very critical of our current players (like Hayward) and look for every flaw.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
He is way past AK already.
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This. AK was a flash in the pan of sorts who was the antithesis of Hayward, his skill poor as ****, outside of having good vision (passing) and being a good weakside shot blocker though that was more early in his career.
 
I was one of AK's biggest fans and I would say that Hayward has now passed AK, and I think he will pass AD if he hasn't already. AD was strictly offense. Hayward plays both sides and also makes plays for other guys. AD was just a scorer.
 
margodydek said:
I think AK v Hayward is close, but the one thing I take from this thread is people have forgotten how good AK was.
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Yeah, he was super fun to watch. I asked for 47 on every basketball team I played on because of him. He isnt close to Hayward tho.
 
Cunning Linguist said:
This. AK was a flash in the pan of sorts who was the antithesis of Hayward, his skill poor as ****, outside of having good vision (passing) and being a good weakside shot blocker though that was more early in his career.
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I wouldnt say it like that. To me Hayward has true versatility where AK just had defensive versatility. AK wanted to play a certain way on offense and really couldn't fit in any other way. Hayward feels like he can play more styles and with different kinds of players. Then there is the fact that Hayward isnt built like Jack Skellington and hasnt had the injury issues that plagued AK.
 
Oh, how people forget how good AK was in 2004-2006. I take prime AK over Hayward any day. Better defender, better rebounder, better passer. All Hayward has on him is better shooting. I am not even talking about unique achievements which placed AK in NBA history books.
 
MVP said:
Oh, how people forget how good AK was in 2004-2006. I take prime AK over Hayward any day. Better defender, better rebounder, better passer. All Hayward has on him is better shooting. I am not even talking about unique achievements which placed AK in NBA history books.
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Hayward is a far better perimeter player. AK's forte was close to the basket and that included on the defensive end. Hayward is a better on ball defender. AK would get those crazy steals and when his man blew by him he was able to recover and block the shot, but Hayward is more consistent because he stays in front on his man much better -- again, better at playing the perimeter. Both are good passers with AK more of a showboat. Hayward has improved every year and still appears to be getting better. AK regressed after about 2005.
 
AKistheFEARFACTOR said:
Obviously Adrian Dantley is #1...

Thought of this while I was watching G-Time ball out yesterday. Hayward is progressing nicely, but needs to add to his resume playoff wins and All NBA selections.

I tend to forget how versatile and important AK47 was to our 07 playoff run. That 3 @ HOU Game 7 was a dagger... And i was there :cool: AK 1x All Star Selection and 3x All NBA Defensive Selection. In 04-05 led the league in blocks with 3.3 and the following year avg 3.2 blocks. What a stat this was from a SF! Miss those 5x5's.

I absolutely expect Hayward to surpass AK47 though. He just needs to win. I believe this teams potential exceeds Deron and Boozer's jazz. Or does it? Those teams were damn good too... Money man Memo $$$.
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Which three was a dagger v. Houston? The one with 5 minutes left in the fourth that tied the game?
 
Eenie-Meenie said:
Hayward is a better on ball defender.
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Prime AK was N times better than Hayward as on ball defender and it was not even close. Hayward's defense is overrated, advanced stats tell different story ( based on them Ingles is better defender that Hayward for example https://www.foxsports.com/nba/utah-jazz-team-stats?season=2015&category=ADVANCED&time=0 ), he is slightly above average defender at his position, AK was elite. When both Phil Jackson and Sloan praise him for his on ball defense on Kobe Bryant that means something.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900055/Kirilenkos-defense-slows-down-Bryant.html?pg=all
 
LifeOnaPlate said:
Which three was a dagger v. Houston? The one with 5 minutes left in the fourth that tied the game?
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That must be the one. I thought he was more in the corner, so I can be thinking of another one. I got this shot mixed up with Memo's 3 which came with a minute and a half left.

Watching the game yesterday, my first instinct was Hayward is better. So, if people are saying he is already better, this must've just happened this season, which could very well give Hayward an All NBA 3rd team nod and thus give him some sort of recognition/accolade to counter AK47's Defensive Team appearances and All Star nod.
 
AK made the All-Defensive team 3x, and was an All-Star over Carmelo Anthony. Teams were changing their offenses around AK when playing the Jazz. He single-handedly wrecked opponents whole systems.

The 2003-2004 Jazz team that won 40 games with names like Ben Handlogten, Carlos Arroyo, Michael Ruffin, Sasha Pavlovic, Jarron Collins and Mikki Moore in the rotation, did so largely because of the one man wrecking machine Andrei Kirilenko. I really like Gordon Hayward, but teams aren't orienting their defenses around his offense.
 
Ron Mexico said:
Or others have rose colored glasses and remember the good stuff from him and not that he disappeared all the time and pouted for almost 5 years straight and never got better after getting paid. We also are very critical of our current players (like Hayward) and look for every flaw.
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I agree with Margo. AK was a much better player than fans on this board give him credit for, and a big part of it was the fact the Jazz paid him that big deal without letting the market determine his value.

I'd be willing to bet that if Utah had given Hayward a max deal without letting him hit the market, we'd have a bunch more malcontents who look at Hayward unfavorably, because he hasn't gotten us into the playoffs.




Also, for the fans who constantly **** all over AK every time his name comes up, go **** yourself sideways.
 
Joncolton said:
AK made the All-Defensive team 3x, and was an All-Star over Carmelo Anthony. Teams were changing their offenses around AK when playing the Jazz. He single-handedly wrecked opponents whole systems.

The 2003-2004 Jazz team that won 40 games with names like Ben Handlogten, Carlos Arroyo, Michael Ruffin, Sasha Pavlovic, Jarron Collins and Mikki Moore in the rotation, did so largely because of the one man wrecking machine Andrei Kirilenko. I really like Gordon Hayward, but teams aren't orienting their defenses around his offense.
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Yep, look at how dominant Gobert is defensively, and yet he still has never had a 10 block game. AK is so underappreciated, just because he couldn't live up to that contract. Fantastic player, and Utah was lucky to have him play out most of his career in Utah.
 
MVP said:
Prime AK was N times better than Hayward as on ball defender and it was not even close. Hayward's defense is overrated, advanced stats tell different story ( based on them Ingles is better defender that Hayward for example https://www.foxsports.com/nba/utah-jazz-team-stats?season=2015&category=ADVANCED&time=0 ), he is slightly above average defender at his position, AK was elite. When both Phil Jackson and Sloan praise him for his on ball defense on Kobe Bryant that means something.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900055/Kirilenkos-defense-slows-down-Bryant.html?pg=all
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Kobe let Hayward train with him.

Hayward > AK
 
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