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Stephen A claims Hayward IS Boston's problem.

LoPo said:
I'm agreeing with you that he became worthy of a max level contract. He was that type of player for the last two years of his deal. Over the first two years, I just don't believe he was worth it.

He didn't bring any intangibles to the table. Maybe if he was charismatic like Mitchell. Or if he was an incredible guy in the community. Or if he had games from time to time which got the Jazz name out there more. But that wasn't who he was. He was a good all round player. If he was a max player for another franchise, Jazz fans wouldn't have held him so high. If he was a Bull or a Hawk or a King...
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Gordon Hayward is not a max player. I'm glad we aren't paying him like one. Some day we are going to look back and see what a masterful job Quinn did with him. Also, I'm not positive Gobert and Mitchell would be as spectacular sans Quinn. I mean look at Rubio and Crowder. . .
 
This is a bit off topic, but as Hayward’s extension talks drew on and he waffled, Rudy signed his extension, and then he went on a massive stretch lighting the league on fire. It seemed to me, based on both their body language, that Rudy was asserting this as his team, and he seemed to be frustrated with Mr. Waffles’ waffling.
 
LoPo said:
The last two years sure I'll give you that. However, he was not a max level player the first two years of his max contract. The best player on the team getting 16, 5 and 5? The first two years, he was only a max contract player on potential not on actual production.

The way I see it, I'm willing to pay a guy max money on potential if the actualization of his potential makes up for the fact that he didn't play like a max level player earlier in the contract. His peak was pretty good, but winning one series and making the All Star team doesn't make up for the fact that our team sucked and he played only pretty well for the first couple years.

Hayward never brought us national attention. He helped win one playoff series in 4 years. If he wasn't the focal point for 4 years, he would have had even more pedestrian numbers.
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Nationally, everybody wants to talk about Hayward like he was this incredible monster player before his injury. The truth is that while he was probably the most important player for the Jazz the last 2 years he was here, it took him 7 years in an incubator to develop into a one-time, alternate-due-to-injury All-Star. His stats with Utah were a product of an offense meticulously designed around him.

In a Moneyball organization such as the Jazz, the team needs to structure itself around what it can get (mid-lottery draft picks, reclamation projects, and so on) and its built-in disadvantages ("Utah is a bad city" and/or "You go live in Utah" and/or "The fans are vile"). Props to Hayward for leveraging that into a sweetheart deal with the team and coach that he wanted. Props the Jazz for being free from someone that didn't want to be here. Props to the media for all their hot takes about this. Finally, props to us who get to enjoy the schadenfreude, may it last forever.
 
31mil a year is a big price tag for a player like hayward, 2014 we were gawking at the idea of signing him to a max, hayward is a good player, but lets not forget how he vanished in the 2014-2015 season and choked against a cp3/blake less clippers. The guy is a choke artist there is no way around it. I like his game still but good god 31mil for hayward is absurd.

lets not forget it took the skeleton remains of JJ to push us past the clippers b/c hayward was busy crapping em self of food poisoning or vanishing in the 4th quarter.

 
ONE LOVE said:
We dodged a huge bullet. I'd much prefer spending MAX on someone else.
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Thee jazz fan said:
He was worth every cent of his first contract
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He was worth every cent. And we only dodged a bullet because of his injury. Hayward in his last season with the Jazz was worth signing at $30M/per. He was a 20+ scorer who had a deadly step back jumper. Not the best 3PT shooter, but a guy who filled the stat sheet. Look, I hate Hayward for how he left. I wanted him to fail in Boston. And I'm not going to feel sorry for him, not when he makes $120M+.

He probably should be coming off the bench. But Stevens has a problem with too many starters. And Hayward is his guy; everyone knows that. Morris is a better fit starting at the 4, but who does Stevens bench?
 
We dodged a bullet
 
Jack Strop said:
He was a 20+ scorer
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For one season.
I dont think that one season guarantees that he would be a 20+ scorer going forward. Especially if guys like ingles, crowder, and mitchell start getting some of his touches and shots.
 
Alfalfa said:
That was a bunch of hot air. But I'm glad Hayward is being **** on. Hope he's enjoying the spotlight!
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Where there's smoke...there's fire my friend.

They have WAY too many people that need the ball in their hands.
 
Jack Strop said:
Hayward in his last season with the Jazz was worth signing at $30M/per.
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He really wasn't. I mean technically he might have been if you squint hard enough. But at that price, in order to be contenders, you need a player to overperform the contract. Hayward has never overperformed his contract.
 
JAZZGASM said:
And Hayward stepped in front of a bus. I'd love to snag Morris next year. Kyrie is going to get paid and Hayward's salary is going to strangle them.

Hayward's body language speaks volumes. Dude lacks heart.
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He's mentally weak. Always had been. From being bullied with wet will willie's, to his ego infested attention begging free agency, to his "I'm ok don't forget about me videos", to his poor body language and cowardess standing outside the huddle. He mentally soft.
 
Shad said:
They have WAY too many people that need the ball in their hands.
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[src]...but they have Brad. Brad is to Basketball as Einstein is to Physics or Jesus is to Religion. Brad is so smart he has identified 6 different ways to to make all the players happy and win every game. He just needs AD so the Celtics can win it all. [/src]
 
I'm watching Hayward get speared on ESPN, even his biggest fan boy Bill Simmons was tweeting critically of him the other night (like they just discovered what Jazz fans already knew). Then I see Durant necessarily and deservedly pelted with questions about team chemistry, his fight with Draymond and rumors about Durant killing team chemistry. And I wonder when these kids will learn that Jazz reporters toss soft balls, the fans love you until you leave, and money is essentially the same across the NBA.
 
I don’t think he’s the problem honestly. It’s the whole thing... they have 5/6 guys playing for money... will have no chemistry until they alleviate that. This is what happens when players are just assets without a little understanding. If the young guys buy in and take a reduced role then it will likely cost them money.
 
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mellow said:
I'm watching Hayward get speared on ESPN, even his biggest fan boy Bill Simmons was tweeting critically of him the other night (like they just discovered what Jazz fans already knew). Then I see Durant necessarily and deservedly pelted with questions about team chemistry, his fight with Draymond and rumors about Durant killing team chemistry. And I wonder when these kids will learn that Jazz reporters toss soft balls, the fans love you until you leave, and money is essentially the same across the NBA.
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Very true. D-Will had the same problem. Gordon’s injury hurt him, but like I said before, if he doesn’t improve even by playoff time this season.....they’ll be all over him and it’ll only get worse from there. Truly don’t know why you’d want to deal with that **** when you can have max money, be with a very well ran organization, and fans that are generally very supportive. One day.....Gordon may look back.....and wonder what could have been.
 
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