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2019 Trade Deadline Discussion

fishonjazz said:
But do you buy that the extremely tough early schedule played a huge part in our disappointing early season win loss record now?

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We were playing ***** basketball. That's why we had a disappointing record. I don't know why so many people on this board look for a crutch or excuse when we just aren't playing up to expectation. Its okay to say it if its true. Sure, a tough schedule doesn't help when you aren't playing well but it doesn't take away the truth that you still aren't playing well. It just doesnt.

This winning streak against bad teams has been great but we still aren't playing as well as last year. And I'm still leery of buying in and jumping back onto the belief train. Our defensive rating is a point and a half behind last year's defensive rating. And we've had a healthy Rudy all season. Last year he was out 20+ games and we had a better defensive rating? Not a good sign at all. We are giving up nearly 5 PPG more this season. Our defensive rating and opponent ppg during our big winning streak last season puts our defense at any point this season to shame. We still haven't returned to the level of defense we were playing last season. And as a team whose identity is defense, that is not good. Our offense is not benefiting from the rule changes at all. We basically have the same offensive rating as last season despite it being easier to score league wide.

I still see us winning 45 ish with this current group. And I still stand by my claim that we have taken a step back. Although I would LOVE to be proven wrong this time.
 
Bawse Dawg said:
What is the underrated aspect of Favors game? Serious question.


Being a really good dude doesn’t make you an underrated basketball player.
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I don’t think the argument is that he’s underrated here - we all know what he’s capable of - the argument is that he is playing out of position. He’s a MODERN DAY CENTER. Not a PF.

If he’s happy with his role as mostly a bench guy to come in for Rudy/Crowder/and eventually someone else - great. But he could really flourish as a C on some other team. And he should ONLY be moved if we get that perfect PF for our system in return, or the perect PG.

But I’ll say it again. We’re going to need him against GS. Cousins on that team is downright frightening.
 
Bawse Dawg said:
What is the underrated aspect of Favors game? Serious question.


Being a really good dude doesn’t make you an underrated basketball player.
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It's been a few weeks since I checked but last time I did he almost had the exact same PPP as Gobert despite taking more jumpers and playing out of position more. He's also good defensively at C, not Gobert-elite levels but more than serviceable and he's a good rebounder, he has great hands for a big guy, good lockerroom guy, etc.

I guess the underrated aspect of his game is that he could be putting up better stats and having more of an impact on a game if he got to play all of his minutes a night at C instead of playing out of position at PF for 10 - 12 minutes ever night. He's better than alot of current starting Cs in the league imo.
 
The mailman said:
I don’t think the argument is that he’s underrated here - we all know what he’s capable of - the argument is that he is playing out of position. He’s a MODERN DAY CENTER. Not a PF.

If he’s happy with his role as mostly a bench guy to come in for Rudy/Crowder/and eventually someone else - great. But he could really flourish as a C on some other team. And he should ONLY be moved if we get that perfect PF for our system in return, or the perect PG.

But I’ll say it again. We’re going to need him against GS. Cousins on that team is downright frightening.
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Favors doesn't help against the starting Warriors lineup, you'd be better off with Jae on Green and Gobert on Cousins imo. He'd be awesome for the bench unit if GSW staggers Cousins minutes with the bench more though.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Paying anyone $18 million a year to play 24 minutes a game is a terrible idea.

Favors is a fine player but I’m so ****ing over this conversation.
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Having a plus matchup at the center position for 48 minutes is an absolute luxury. Plus the 2 big defensive lineups have been incredible, and better than the offensive struggles. Plus a team-controlled deal isn't bad. Context matters.
 
The two-big lineup didn't just take the Jazz to the playoffs, it won a playoff series. You don't have to play everybody else's game.
 
On the favors thing. I'm on the fence
I can see all sides and agree with all sides

I lean that we need a stretch 4 but favors is awesome too.

With Rubio I feel we need a change

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fishonjazz said:
On the favors thing. I'm on the fence
I can see all sides and agree with all sides

I lean that we need a stretch 4 but favors is awesome too.

With Rubio I feel we need a change

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I agree as challenging as this discussion is; Rubio, although a good point guard, seems that he is not a fit for the direction that the Jazz want to move. And seeing that he's our starting PG, that's a problem. Passing is great, but he's still so inconsistent on his outside shot and even defense at times, it's becoming harder to see a success path with him as our starting PG.
 
SCS said:
We were playing ***** basketball. That's why we had a disappointing record. I don't know why so many people on this board look for a crutch or excuse when we just aren't playing up to expectation. Its okay to say it if its true. Sure, a tough schedule doesn't help when you aren't playing well but it doesn't take away the truth that you still aren't playing well. It just doesnt.

This winning streak against bad teams has been great but we still aren't playing as well as last year. And I'm still leery of buying in and jumping back onto the belief train. Our defensive rating is a point and a half behind last year's defensive rating. And we've had a healthy Rudy all season. Last year he was out 20+ games and we had a better defensive rating? Not a good sign at all. We are giving up nearly 5 PPG more this season. Our defensive rating and opponent ppg during our big winning streak last season puts our defense at any point this season to shame. We still haven't returned to the level of defense we were playing last season. And as a team whose identity is defense, that is not good. Our offense is not benefiting from the rule changes at all. We basically have the same offensive rating as last season despite it being easier to score league wide.

I still see us winning 45 ish with this current group. And I still stand by my claim that we have taken a step back. Although I would LOVE to be proven wrong this time.
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I agree with a lot of what you are saying. The frustrating thing about the early struggles is that I wasn't expecting them so much because the Jazz should have been ready to go from the get go considering they were a team that didn't make major changes. Yes the difficult schedule didn't help but the reality is that many of the teams the Jazz were losing to were playoff caliber teams. You know the teams that they have to beat to make the playoffs and advance in the playoff. So it was who they were losing to that bother me as much as how crappy they played.

Even though Gobert is healthy, the Jazz still have had injuries. DM was not completely right coming into the season physically in my opinion. Nevertheless using the "difficult schedule" excuses while denying that the Jazz played pretty crappy basketball is homerism at its best. Yes they did lose a couple close games GS/OKC but they made crucial mistakes that cost them the game. As a fan I believe that there is nothing wrong with acknowledging when your team plays poorly, the Jazz played poorly for most of the bad stretch.

Now they are playing better, the defense is improving and they are managing through the injuries. Hopefully, they can continue improving and get healthy and start playing playoff basketball. The team is still flawed (most teams are) but if the Jazz can continue to shoot better, make their FTs and stop making so many dam turnovers I think they can compete in the playoffs. The Western conference playoffs are going to be brutal. Match-ups will most likely determine how far the team goes. However if they revert back to how they played earlier then they will be watching from the sidelines.

The defense rating is not that big of a difference considering the new rule changes. Scoring is way up this year but there are sides that Jazz are adjusting and playing a lot better on defense. When the playoffs come defense will play a big role in who wins. I like the Jazz chances in a low scoring game.
 
Beal and maybe even Porter likely staying put:

https://www.nbcsports.com/washingto...-be-skeptical-those-bradley-beal-trade-rumors

"He expressed firmly what team officials have been indicating for weeks, that if they are active at the trade deadline, it won't be with deals involving their main guys.

That means Beal is highly unlikely to be dealt. Otto Porter Jr. can be considered similarly and John Wall should go without saying given his current injury status and hefty trade kicker."



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Regarding Favors, we need him if Rudy gets in foul trouble, and we might need him to guard Cousins/Draymond. We can't give him away cheap, and we can keep him as a backup plan in free agency this summer.

The Jazz have a legit shot at the 3 seed, which would give us a coaching advantage against Denver in the 2nd round and a real shot at the WCF.
 
Catchall said:
Regarding Favors, we need him if Rudy gets in foul trouble, and we might need him to guard Cousins/Draymond. We can't give him away cheap, and we can keep him as a backup plan in free agency this summer.

The Jazz have a legit shot at the 3 seed, which would give us a coaching advantage against Denver in the 2nd round and a real shot at the WCF.
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Favors gives us a great shot at a great season record, but he won't make that big of a difference against Golden State.

Yes, we need Gobert against Boogie, but we can put Crowder, Thabo and even Ingles on Draymond. Favors on Draymond really doesn't help us on either end of the court. Just allows Draymond to help even more due to Favors' poor perimeter shooting.

Favors is really just a great emergency option for Gobert come playoff time. This summer, it's either keep Favors or go shopping. Can't really have both.

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We talk a lot in this thread about trading Rubio, Exum or Favors. We should also be talking about trading a package of Thabo, Udoh, and Bradley.

Those guys combine for $10 million salaries. Thabo and Udoh are expirings but could give a playoff aspiring team some quality minutes. Bradley could be considered a positive asset due to his contract and age. Package those 3 guys with a 1st rounder and maybe we could add another quality player.

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LoPo said:
We talk a lot in this thread about trading Rubio, Exum or Favors. We should also be talking about trading a package of Thabo, Udoh, and Bradley.

Those guys combine for $10 million salaries. Thabo and Udoh are expirings but could give a playoff aspiring team some quality minutes. Bradley could be considered a positive asset due to his contract and age. Package those 3 guys with a 1st rounder and maybe we could add another quality player.

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If we trade Bradley and Udoh, and Favors goes down (not far-fetched), who's playing behind Gobert?
 
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