"but the drama, the outrage and the constant hating are simply ridiculous."
Can't a brother talk ****?
Ricky shoot around comments to media
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"but the drama, the outrage and the constant hating are simply ridiculous."
Can't a brother talk ****?
NAOS
Well-Known Member
uhhh... his cheap contract makes him desirable to every team. Just ask Dallas, Boston, Cleveland, and Utah. When people speak of un-tradable contracts, they aren't speaking of cheap ones.
I really don't think this is difficult to understand.
And nobody knows how many teams have inquired about Jae's availability; nor any idea how advanced any trade talks have gotten. But you're welcome to have your speculations, of course.
Sandman822
Well-Known Member
What makes you say that? Rubio catches a lot of flack in places like here but overall I think Wall and Westbrook have caught much more heat for their poor shooting than Rubio has this season.
Sandman822
Well-Known Member
Like Wall was the NBA punching bag for most of this season yet Rubio has somehow had it worse because he gets some hate from JF and was in some trade rumours?
Not if we are comparing relative to how much people talk about them, and not just because of his shooting (which is the constant knock on Rubio).
Wall has been under a lot of scrutiny this year mainly because of his contract, the amount of losing, the lack of self-accountability while being the top player on his team, and basically the fact that he's a quite unlikable guy. Of course his shooting has been mentioned, but it isn't the sole and constant focus of his critics.
As for Westbrook, you can't begin to compare how often he is discussed on media or message boards relative to Rubio. Of course you're going to see his name pretty often (plus he's also a douche). And yet you have as many people alluding to his shooting as you have guys talking about his triple-doubles.
Not nearly the same IMO, but to be honest I think this is clearly the least important and least interesting thing you can take from my initial message. I think it's quite more meaningful to understand that all that talk about "you can't win with a PG as inefficient as Ricky", about how "Rubio has never improved his shot" or how "incredibly inconsistent he is" is pure BS. The league is and has always been full of guards that were inefficient scoring the ball. Some took 8 shots per game and some took 18. And the longer the shooting distance and the less those guards attack the rim, the more inconsistent they become. Rubio is not a rarity, nor is he an insurmountable liability, and it's about time people realize that and stop bitc***g.
Sandman822
Well-Known Member
I thought it was very interesting to claim that Rubio has been under more scrutiny than some of those other guys because 95% of the NBA doesn't care for the Jazz outside of Mitchell on occasion and Ingles memes. I also think you're incorrect about how much scrutiny vs how much people talk about them in this, as Rubio is generally loved on Jazz twitter and places like r/UtahJazz and most Jazz fans really like Rubio. The amount of outpouring on those places around wanting Rubio to stay at the deadline was pretty high, and any posts that I saw from those places which were trying to bring the JazzFanz scrutiny of Rubio were mostly downvoted on reddit or argued against on twitter.
Rubio is who he is, and most media members just accept that instead of criticise him which is different to Westbrook or Wall who are star players that are underperforming. Most Utah Jazz fans are fans of Rubio and like having him on the team. Even prominent national media members who actually take time to watch and research games like Zach Lowe don't think Rubio is necessarily the thing holding the Jazz back as much as the PF rotation spot is, and all the stats suggest that once you break up the Rubio/Favors/Gobert combination, the Jazz become a ton better with Rubio on the floor regardless of how he may or may not affect individual performances of players (e.g. The "Rubio makes Donovan worse" narrative). I just think the way you're trying to paint Rubio as a victim of the harshest criticisms in the league is deterimental to your main point about how Rubio's play is underrated (which it is here), as it's simply not true.
To your real point, I think where a lot of the Rubio angst (and Favors angst as well) stems from is simply the fit of Rubio/Favors/Gobert, and to a lesser degree the fit of Rubio/Mitchell from a purely basketball perspective. Rubio is a really solid PG but when you've got a SG who is ball dominant and a frontcourt in 2019 that can't space the floor then you're minimising a lot of Rubio's strengths and magnifying his weaknesses. The team's net rating with their usual closing lineup is 13.8 which is the 3rd best lineup by net rating in the entire league. Rubio in 25 minutes with the same bench lineup that Exum was running before he got hurt has an ORTG of 120 and a DRTG of 91. There are many other lineups that have Rubio with small minute sample sizes that are elite too. He's clearly a good player.
The simple problem with Ricky is whether or not he's a PG you can stick beside Donovan and Gobert and feel comfortable competing for a championship, and lineup data suggests that he can be that guy as long as the other pieces around Rubio/Mitchell/Gobert fit. Where a lot of the Rubio hate stems from (IMO) is the Rubio/Favors/Gobert trio that doesn't work, and how replacing Rubio is likely an easier task with all of the quality PGs in the league today vs replacing Favors who you want to replace with a stretch 4 that ideally could play some 5 as well, otherwise you're going to need to replace Favors with both a stretch 4 + a backup C, and stretch 4s are hot commodities in the NBA right now. That's when people hone in on Rubio's weaknesses, because as I mentioned before they're being magnified in a system where he's playing a lot of minutes next to a ball dominant guard + two bigs who can't space the floor.
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elan_prodigy
Well-Known Member
You obviously dont watch Jazz games.
LoPo
Well-Known Member
All he has said over the last couple years is how happy he is here. Well, is it worth it to move his whole situation to another team to make his probable market value of $12-ish instead of staying where he is happy for $9 or $10?
My whole argument with Ricky has always been that he is a top notch bench PG if we want to contend for a title. Well, we shouldn't pay a bench PG $10+. So not it's up to him - if he wants to stay where he loves it so much, take a little less than market value.
Look at a guy like Crowder. You don't see him being mentioned in trades for two reasons: #1 - although he could be starting somewhere, he is fine coming off the bench. #2 - he is on a team friendly deal.
I literally don't follow Twitter other than for the trade deadline and on draft night so I can be up to date with the last rumors and news those days, so I can't speak for how Rubio is viewed there. I can however talk about the criticism he receives from other fanbases as I follow quite a few message boards from different teams around the league, along with RealGM, which after all is the biggest forum together with r/NBA (I'm on Reddit but I don't enjoy the format that much, so I don't read r/UtahJazz. Maybe I should). Even though Ricky is well liked by many fans, quite often the general feeling doesn't differ from what you can read in JA's threads, which is a product of Ricky's own faults as a scorer, the hype surrounding him when he got to the league, and the fact that most fans watch very little basketball outside their own team's games. Besides reading different message boards and fan sites regularly, I also watch an average of 2 to 3 games daily and I've watched pretty much every game in Rubio's career so I've listened to every broadcaster in the league talk about him, and even though by now most of them realize he's improved certain aspects of his game, he's still fairly criticized for his shooting (as much as he can be in this PR-centered NBA). But of course the truth is that most of those broadcasters -like most fans-, don't watch that much basketball outside the team that pays them, so their views on other players use to be limited (and I'm not even talking about guys on different competitions such as European leagues or the NCAA). I do agree though that in general the best informed journalists tend to appreciate Ricky and what he brings to the table (Lowe in particular has always been a fan), but unfortunately informed and in-depth analysts are a minority these days.
Anyway, even if we don't agree on whether Rubio is more critized than others or not because of his shooting, I liked your post and upvoted it because every point you make on it is detailed and well explained. And I do agree that Ricky is who he is, and he's not the best fit with Donovan and Rudy as long as Favors is sharing the court with the three of them, which leads to even more rage and nonsense by his haters. I also think that even with a good stretch-4 Quin's system won't get the best out of Rubio (and maybe the best for the team itself) since it requires him to score a bit more often than he should and it limits his opportunities to create with the ball. But of course that doesn't mean Rubio and the Jazz can't be succesful (they actually have been), it's just that I think their ceiling could be higher if Snyder were to open the playbook and expand his offense.
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fishonjazz
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Lol. Where did that come from?
fishonjazz
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2018 Award Winner
2019 Award Winner
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I was on this jazz fans facebook page and saw it. Rudy cracks me up the picture.
He kills it in all the commercials too. And of course is a beast on the court and is under a great contract. The entertainment created with he whole crying thing and the water bottle smack. His twitter comments always entertain me. Rudy is the gift that keeps on giving.
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The key factor is this situation is how good or bad Ricky plays the rest of the season. If he plays good , do you think he will resign $10 couse he is an a friendly guy in a friendly team? C´mon. If he plays like the second part of the last season, you think he will resign $10 and the PG from the bench? Yes, Ricky is friendly and is stupid. Maybe you can send him you bank account number and perhaps he will transfer to some of you the half of his next contract with the Jazz... If there had been more trust in him maybe they could talk about a friendly contract , but If Ricky plays good forget it.
On the other hand if he plays bad maybe Ricky could think in a 10$ from the bench but i don´t really believe this will happen. I think Ricky will play for a different team
I feel you, it's unusual to see two people debating a basketball topic in a reasonable manner and with more a than few one-liners or short answers. But it's also kind of refreshing, don't you think?
???I feel you, it's unusual to see two people debating a basketball topic in a reasonable manner and with more a than few one-liners or short answers. But it's also kind of refreshing, don't you think?
LOL. My bad, I didn't notice you were quoting Fish and I thought you were replying to my last message.
If Ricky gets his panties in a Haywad over the front office doing their job, that's on him.
The front office literally gets paid to improve the team, and they would be at fault if they did not listen to offers from other teams and seek out ways to make the team better. Unfortunately for the players, to get a good player, a good player has to go. It's always a complicated scenario that has to match positions with dollars with chemistry with whatever.
I think the FO knows and values chemistry. The FO also is pretty certain with this roster that they will not win a championship despite the great chemistry. Generally our FO likes to keep things quiet because they legitimately like the players they have, but are in a tight spot in that while they like the players they have, they are obligated to seek trades, drafts, opportunities to make the team better even if it hurts. I think it just hurt Ricky to think he was not untouchable, but when he comes down to earth I hope he realizes that maybe 2 people are untouchable, and that's not even true if the right players are in the mix. Bottom line, the front office has to do their job.
Ricky should relax, and play. Favors gets it as he's in the talk every year it seems. It's part of the game, even if it sucks.
I like Ricky, and appreciate much of his game and attitude and the fire he adds to the team. I do wish he would get some arch on his shots. I thought he tried to do that last year and his shots improved, and now this year he is throwing the frozen ropes again.
I like Exum and have been a supporter for a while, but. He can't stay healthy. Period. He's long, fast, and has shows a few flashes of what a healthy Exum is capable of. Some of the people calling for Exum to start over Ricky are absurd. He can't stay on the court and struggles to shoot 30% from three. How does he suddenly solve the problem of Donovan having a 3pt threat from the 1 that has to be guarded to open up the floor? Absurd.
This is a great place to voice opinions, frustrations, and celebrations. So a few posters here want Ricky gone. You will find posters who want everyone gone. Missionaccomplished or whatever his name is used to root for KOC to begone. There are some strange ducks here, but hey it's the internet. We are basically a Utah Jazz in Wonderland where strange things happen and people self ban and come back on the regular. A Hotel California if you will.
The front office literally gets paid to improve the team, and they would be at fault if they did not listen to offers from other teams and seek out ways to make the team better. Unfortunately for the players, to get a good player, a good player has to go. It's always a complicated scenario that has to match positions with dollars with chemistry with whatever.
I think the FO knows and values chemistry. The FO also is pretty certain with this roster that they will not win a championship despite the great chemistry. Generally our FO likes to keep things quiet because they legitimately like the players they have, but are in a tight spot in that while they like the players they have, they are obligated to seek trades, drafts, opportunities to make the team better even if it hurts. I think it just hurt Ricky to think he was not untouchable, but when he comes down to earth I hope he realizes that maybe 2 people are untouchable, and that's not even true if the right players are in the mix. Bottom line, the front office has to do their job.
Ricky should relax, and play. Favors gets it as he's in the talk every year it seems. It's part of the game, even if it sucks.
I like Ricky, and appreciate much of his game and attitude and the fire he adds to the team. I do wish he would get some arch on his shots. I thought he tried to do that last year and his shots improved, and now this year he is throwing the frozen ropes again.
I like Exum and have been a supporter for a while, but. He can't stay healthy. Period. He's long, fast, and has shows a few flashes of what a healthy Exum is capable of. Some of the people calling for Exum to start over Ricky are absurd. He can't stay on the court and struggles to shoot 30% from three. How does he suddenly solve the problem of Donovan having a 3pt threat from the 1 that has to be guarded to open up the floor? Absurd.
This is a great place to voice opinions, frustrations, and celebrations. So a few posters here want Ricky gone. You will find posters who want everyone gone. Missionaccomplished or whatever his name is used to root for KOC to begone. There are some strange ducks here, but hey it's the internet. We are basically a Utah Jazz in Wonderland where strange things happen and people self ban and come back on the regular. A Hotel California if you will.