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Tobias Harris wants to come to utah

Engorged On Unborn Gore said:
If you want to maximize Mitchell’s, Gobert’s, and Conley’s ability to attack the rim, Harris makes the Jazz starting unit unstoppable. Having a 3pt threat at the four is Warrior territory offense because he cannot be left alone on the arc.

The trade off is that we lose Favors’ pick-n-roll minutes in the second unit. The only legit backup that we retain is O’Neale, and we have to hope that we can sign a useful vet or two for the minimum.

If Harris really wants to come here, I say do it. Snyder can stagger Conley and Mitchell, and our starting/ending units would be killer.

Neither Harris nor Favors maximize the salary that they will be paid, but it is probably better err on the side of a really good complementary starting five.
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You could move Joe to the bench. If you’re starting four borderline all-stars, you really just need someone to come in, be a threat to make open shots, and not make a lot of mistakes. You could even have Vince Carter start. Sub him for Joe at the 4 minute mark. Give him 14-15 mpg. How’s his D? Is 40 year old Carter’s lateral speed better than 30 year old Joe?

But if we’re pretending we get Harris, let’s pretend Ariza decides he wants to sign for the room exception. Could we be beaten?
 
It’s a tough decision to move on from Favors. He does so many things well and he seems to like it here which is awesome.

To me Favors adds a physical presence down low that really shines during playoff basketball. Which isn’t something that is easily replaceable. Gobert for all his marvels, lacks the physicality that Favors brings.

Favors and Gobert match up very well with Denver and The Lakers. Our front court really bothers AD and the Joker.

Obviously we struggle with Houston. But I feel like if we landed Harris, our defense would really take a hit.

If we can some how land Harris we absolutely need to add a solid backup center with some physicality. And with the money he will command I am not sure you can.
 
Utesnjazz said:
It’s a tough decision to move on from Favors. He does so many things well and he seems to like it here which is awesome.

To me Favors adds a physical presence down low that really shines during playoff basketball. Which isn’t something that is easily replaceable. Gobert for all his marvels, lacks the physicality that Favors brings.

Favors and Gobert match up very well with Denver and The Lakers. Our front court really bothers AD and the Joker.

Obviously we struggle with Houston. But I feel like if we landed Harris, our defense would really take a hit.

If we can some how land Harris we absolutely need to add a solid backup center with some physicality. And with the money he will command I am not sure you can.
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Not really that tough. He averaged 26 mpg in the regular season and 20 mpg in the playoffs. You don't pay a player 16m a year for that.
 
Ellis269 said:
I think age and salary had more to do with that stuff than Conley’s ability. Add his past injury issues combined with (what was expected to be) an exorbitant cost to acquire him, and it makes sense that fans would be more interested in “more realistic” options.

The fact that it happened can’t be overlooked though. It’s a great move if he provides the leadership and scoring support that he’s expected to.

Risky? Absolutely. But still a great move.
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I think it's also that he has played in Memphis his whole career (people don't talk alot about Memphis) and there were a plodding defensive team (the grind house), and the fact he has never been an all star, and he just had his best season if his career last year (coincidentally while his team was about the worst it's ever been), and he isn't flashy, and his team was never that great even in the gasol, Randolph, Tony Allen, Conley days.

He has basically been under rated his whole career. Now he is joining the jazz and us fans are looking at his highlight videos, all his strengths, all these awesome stats, etc and drinking the koolaid like we should and always do.

I remember how excited we all we when we got big Al. We did the same thing then. When we got Rubio. We did the same thing then.

I think that conley will be better for us than those guys though.



Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
I think we’re all somewhat in agreement - we all love Favors - a true Jazzman - but we all know that he is in no way a modern day PF - he is a C - and he is a great backup C - but Harris would certainly be a better fit as this team is currently constructed.

But at what cost? Either as a straight FA signing or as a sign and trade with Philly - if the cost is losing Favors and Exum and whoever else - is it worth it?

In other words, would getting Conley and Harris be worth losing Favors, and Exum, and Crowder, and Korver, and Allen, and draft picks, and whoever else? That seems insane to me - what are we the Lakers? All we would have is Royce coming off the bench. We’d go from one of the deepest teams in the league to having no bench whatsoever.

I’m starting to think that unless Harris wants to come here on a team friendly deal, we should just pick up a couple of vets and see how having Conley improves the team. I think Conley will do wonders for Favors - even if it’s just because other teams will have to respect his outside shot - unlike Bricky Rubio - that in itself will open up more opportunities and easier baskets for Favors.

It’s not so much that Gobert and Favors can’t be successful together, it’s that they can’t be successful together with a PG who can’t shoot.
 
The mailman said:
But at what cost? Either as a straight FA signing or as a sign and trade with Philly - if the cost is losing Favors and Exum and whoever else - is it worth it?

In other words, would getting Conley and Harris be worth losing Favors, and Exum, and Crowder, and Korver, and Allen, and draft picks, and whoever else? That seems insane to me - what are we the Lakers? All we would have is Royce coming off the bench. We’d go from one of the deepest teams in the league to having no bench whatsoever.
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Have you seen what Houston has been able to do the last few years? They always seem to find minimum vets who can come off the bench and make an impact. I don't think we'd 100% have terrible depth
 
Just popping in to say that IF you can get Harris, but it requires letting Favors go, this is an absolute no brainer. You do this. Favors is a center, and paying what we're paying him for a primarily back up center is too much, particularly when there are any number of replacement level options available. He and Gobert together work, sort of. The defensive rating is good, but the offensive rating is not. The offensive rating, and net rating, with Crowder on the floor, for example, was significantly higher than the net rating with Gobert and Favors on the floor. Now, net rating with Favors on floor, but no Gobert, is better, but in order to maximize what we can get from Favors, then, this would require that he play primarily as a backup center, or otherwise when Gobert is resting. We are paying him too much for this role, and he's much more talented to be relegated to this type of role. It's better for Jazz and for Favors IF we moved him, assuming we can get someone of Harris' caliber in exchange.
 
David Stern said:
Have you seen what Houston has been able to do the last few years? They always seem to find minimum vets who can come off the bench and make an impact. I don't think we'd 100% have terrible depth
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That’s a terrible example. Houston is in deep doo doo - they will be ****ed for years to come. Vets went there because they have one of the top 5 players in the league. Rudy and DM aren’t quite there yet.

If I were Houston I’d trade everyone - including Harden - and start rebuilding. You could get some serious young pieces for him. That team is never going to win a championship.
 
jimmy eat jazz said:
Just popping in to say that IF you can get Harris, but it requires letting Favors go, this is an absolute no brainer. You do this. Favors is a center, and paying what we're paying him for a primarily back up center is too much, particularly when there are any number of replacement level options available. He and Gobert together work, sort of. The defensive rating is good, but the offensive rating is not. The offensive rating, and net rating, with Crowder on the floor, for example, was significantly higher than the net rating with Gobert and Favors on the floor. Now, net rating with Favors on floor, but no Gobert, is better, but in order to maximize what we can get from Favors, then, this would require that he play primarily as a backup center, or otherwise when Gobert is resting. We are paying him too much for this role, and he's much too talented to be relegated to this type of role. It's better for Jazz and for Favors IF we moved him, assuming we can get someone of Harris' caliber in exchange.
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David Stern said:
Have you seen what Houston has been able to do the last few years? They always seem to find minimum vets who can come off the bench and make an impact. I don't think we'd 100% have terrible depth
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There is some truth to this but also remember we won’t bring in any problem guys... so guys that may not fit the identity of the locker room or that hurt team chemistry won’t be considered. So some of those additions wouldn’t be on our radar.

I do think you try to get one of those types... minimum or buyout guys or at least keep a roster spot open for one... the other issue is the Lakers will need those types and will have roles for them... so competition might be fierce.
 
Wes Mantooth said:
There’s a reason the Sixers fans I know don’t want him back at the max or even too close to it. 25M per. That’s the ceiling of his worth.
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Not sure Harris could really play his game having been behind Simmons Embiid and Butler
fishonjazz said:
No one on jazz fans really talked about wanting to acquire him.
For instance, I saw WAY more posts about getting jrue holiday than I ever did about Conley. Way way way more.
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I didn’t talk about either, 1. Jrue was a total pipe dream. Never thought the pels had any interest in trading him, 2. I felt getting Conley mention we couldn’t get Harris. I hope we can find a way to add Harris.
 
David Stern said:
Have you seen what Houston has been able to do the last few years? They always seem to find minimum who can come off the bench and make an impact. I don't think we'd 100% have terrible depth
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Or the Warriors. Jazz are now entering territory we've haven't been in a long time: can only afford to pay 3 stars (Conley, Gobert, could clear space for one more), a value starter (Ingles) and a player on his first contract (Donovan). Then the rest will have to be rookies and vets. Or you go with a couple of guys in the $15M range instead of another max player. What hurts us this year is not being able to go over the cap to sign players. Next year Jazz shouldn't have that problem if they've used up all their space including the room exception. Add in cap holds for our pick, etc. and the Jazz should be over the cap and have the full MLE.

It's a stupid rule. Either give every team the MLE or don't. Why should under the cap teams get punished for being under, but wanting to spend?

I do see the Lakers competing with us for vets, but they can only have 15 on their roster. So maybe they get some ring chasers, but Jazz should be in competition for the remaining players. That's why keeping Favs and Exum might be the right decision. It's not going to be as easy as some think just to grab rotational players for cheap.
 
jimmy eat jazz said:
Just popping in to say that IF you can get Harris, but it requires letting Favors go, this is an absolute no brainer. You do this. Favors is a center, and paying what we're paying him for a primarily back up center is too much, particularly when there are any number of replacement level options available. He and Gobert together work, sort of. The defensive rating is good, but the offensive rating is not. The offensive rating, and net rating, with Crowder on the floor, for example, was significantly higher than the net rating with Gobert and Favors on the floor. Now, net rating with Favors on floor, but no Gobert, is better, but in order to maximize what we can get from Favors, then, this would require that he play primarily as a backup center, or otherwise when Gobert is resting. We are paying him too much for this role, and he's much more talented to be relegated to this type of role. It's better for Jazz and for Favors IF we moved him, assuming we can get someone of Harris' caliber in exchange.
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Agreed - Jazz won a few games last season in the second quarter when Favors would come in and just dominate the opposing team's back up center.

Forget about the fact that he can't hit 3's or defend the perimeter well - you can't have your second highest paid player playing 20mpg in the playoffs - it's just an exposure you can't afford against top shelf teams.
 
Thee jazz fan said:
Not sure Harris could really play his game having been behind Simmons Embiid and Butler


I didn’t talk about either, 1. Jrue was a total pipe dream. Never thought the pels had any interest in trading him, 2. I felt getting Conley mention we couldn’t get Harris. I hope we can find a way to add Harris.
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The Clips played better without him. Quite clearly.
 
fishonjazz said:
I think it's also that he has played in Memphis his whole career (people don't talk alot about Memphis) and there were a plodding defensive team (the grind house), and the fact he has never been an all star, and he just had his best season if his career last year (coincidentally while his team was about the worst it's ever been), and he isn't flashy, and his team was never that great even in the gasol, Randolph, Tony Allen, Conley days.

He has basically been under rated his whole career. Now he is joining the jazz and us fans are looking at his highlight videos, all his strengths, all these awesome stats, etc and drinking the koolaid like we should and always do.

I remember how excited we all we when we got big Al. We did the same thing then. When we got Rubio. We did the same thing then.

I think that conley will be better for us than those guys though.



Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
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I was not down with Big Al or Rubio, for the record.

I was right.
 
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