Getting Traded
Banned
How about get rid of both? You don't have that option.
Either Conley goes or DL you choose...
- Thread starter 416Klawzz
- Start date
Keefe
Well-Known Member
And I intend on starting to eat healthy.
Saying so and doing so are two entirely different things.
JazzyBelle
Active Member
For reals this is dumb. What if Conleys comes back next year and puts up 20 and 7 along with the defense he had in Memphis?
Fans are so fickle, past clue summers y'all been screaming at DL to make a move,any more and when he did yall praised it from the top of the Rocky Mountains and yes things didn't go as planned but maybe just maybe the fans put to much pressure on a guy coming in,off a major injury and learning a new system.
JazzyBelle
Active Member
With the way things ended here with Swill,Hayward we don't need to run Conley out of town but then again it won't matter cuz if Mitchell leaves in a court years Jazz will be toast when it comes to Free Agencies
jom2003
Well-Known Member
1, Asking this current version of Conley to average 20 and 7 while playing good defense is a big IF no matter how you look at it.
What if Suns figure it out with their talented squad, manage to stay healthy and carry their bubble momentum into next season? What if Curry and Klay comes back at full strength next season and start doing what they've been doing their whole career as the splash brother? What if Grizz/Pels/T'wolves continue to improve with their young squad and find a way to insert themselves into the playoffs conversation?
All are more likely to happen than a 34 yr old mike conley, who's never won anything even in his prime yrs with memphis, finding his fountain of youth. Even if he does i won't rate him as a top 15 PG in this league.
2, Conley is brought in specifically as a win-now-guy who's likely gonna be gone by the end of 2021. if he needs time to learn a new system, why shouldn't we instead give it to some younger player who are gonna be here long term?
jom2003
Well-Known Member
DM will want out if we still play Conley major minutes, take the ball out of DM's hands, and give him tougher defensive assignment because we need to hide Mike Conley on defense.
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416Klawzz
Well-Known Member
Conley sucks and is a has been we traded nearly the whole team for him. DL is stupid maybe he has hopes of acquiring Exum again and signing him to the supermax?
Lots of chicken csuse you love the ****?
green
Well-Known Member
I have been anti-DL for years now. Look at what he has done:
Let Millsap walk for nothing. That led to Exum, who he extended with a terrible contract. The Jazz were all lined up to take Giannis with #14 and Gobert with their pick in the 20's...DL traded those picks for Burke. He screwed up the Hayward initial contract, when Hayward wanted a max deal, he told Hayward to go find one (even though he KNEW the cap was going to rise) and instead of locking Hayward up for 4 years, we only got him for 3, which Hayward then bolted to Boston. And was DL blindsided that Hayward was going to leave? Nah, Hayward asked out and DL said no. He did trade back into the first round for Gobert, but that was because Sloan threw a fit and went to bat for Gobert. Not so much a DL pick, but a Sloan pick. DL traded the pick the Jazz wanted to use on Gobert for Burke.
In FA, DL has been less than stellar. What big signing has he made to remake this team? Bojan? Had he kept a much better player in Hayward, he wouldn't have needed Bojan. What Boozer or Memo or Bell did he find? Ingles?
Now onto Mitchell. I know everyone loves to give him credit for Mitchell, and yes, he did say yes. BUT, what happened is Denver called Utah up and said, "We know you like Mitchell. We want Lyles. You in?" Yes, DL needs relationships, yes, he needs to scout Mitchell, but this wasn't some schrewd DL screwing Denver out of a player. It was Denver offering a trade to Utah and Utah saying yes.
He traded for George Hill instead of Teague and Hill was a big part of the reason Hayward bailed.
Imagine what DL could have been:
Instead of letting Millsap walk for nothing, he keeps the player with all star potential. He sticks with the plan of Giannis and Gobert instead of trading up for Burke. The Jazz now look like this:
Jamall Tinsley/Lucas III
Hayward/Burke
Giannis/Richard Jefferson
Millsap/Marvin Williams
Favors/Gobert
That team is a bit better than what he did, isn't it?
Sure, we miss out on Exum, but I think we'd all trade Exum for Giannis, no?
We might miss out on Mitchell, but maybe not. And if DL was this mastermind who maneuvered to get Mitchell the first time, he would have done it the second time, right?
Anyways, Giannis is a better player than Mitchell and if you were to tell me I could have Mitchell or Giannis/Hayward/Millsap...I'm not taking Mitchell, as great as he is.
DL is so overrated in Jazzland.
Let Millsap walk for nothing. That led to Exum, who he extended with a terrible contract. The Jazz were all lined up to take Giannis with #14 and Gobert with their pick in the 20's...DL traded those picks for Burke. He screwed up the Hayward initial contract, when Hayward wanted a max deal, he told Hayward to go find one (even though he KNEW the cap was going to rise) and instead of locking Hayward up for 4 years, we only got him for 3, which Hayward then bolted to Boston. And was DL blindsided that Hayward was going to leave? Nah, Hayward asked out and DL said no. He did trade back into the first round for Gobert, but that was because Sloan threw a fit and went to bat for Gobert. Not so much a DL pick, but a Sloan pick. DL traded the pick the Jazz wanted to use on Gobert for Burke.
In FA, DL has been less than stellar. What big signing has he made to remake this team? Bojan? Had he kept a much better player in Hayward, he wouldn't have needed Bojan. What Boozer or Memo or Bell did he find? Ingles?
Now onto Mitchell. I know everyone loves to give him credit for Mitchell, and yes, he did say yes. BUT, what happened is Denver called Utah up and said, "We know you like Mitchell. We want Lyles. You in?" Yes, DL needs relationships, yes, he needs to scout Mitchell, but this wasn't some schrewd DL screwing Denver out of a player. It was Denver offering a trade to Utah and Utah saying yes.
He traded for George Hill instead of Teague and Hill was a big part of the reason Hayward bailed.
Imagine what DL could have been:
Instead of letting Millsap walk for nothing, he keeps the player with all star potential. He sticks with the plan of Giannis and Gobert instead of trading up for Burke. The Jazz now look like this:
Jamall Tinsley/Lucas III
Hayward/Burke
Giannis/Richard Jefferson
Millsap/Marvin Williams
Favors/Gobert
That team is a bit better than what he did, isn't it?
Sure, we miss out on Exum, but I think we'd all trade Exum for Giannis, no?
We might miss out on Mitchell, but maybe not. And if DL was this mastermind who maneuvered to get Mitchell the first time, he would have done it the second time, right?
Anyways, Giannis is a better player than Mitchell and if you were to tell me I could have Mitchell or Giannis/Hayward/Millsap...I'm not taking Mitchell, as great as he is.
DL is so overrated in Jazzland.
green
Well-Known Member
I don't like the "you wanted player X so you can't criticize the move" guy.
1 - I'm not the GM. I don't get that big paycheck. I don't get held accountable for his moves.
2 - In my job, if I make a decision and it doesn't work out but my boss approved the decision, guess who gets fired? Not my boss. Me. Same with GM's. When they make a move that seems good at the time but it doesn't pan out, IT WAS A BAD MOVE. You don't get a "well, we agreed with your bad move that you talked us into so we will keep you around." You get fired and someone else is brought in to make a good move. Your job is to KNOW what moves are good and bad.
1 - I'm not the GM. I don't get that big paycheck. I don't get held accountable for his moves.
2 - In my job, if I make a decision and it doesn't work out but my boss approved the decision, guess who gets fired? Not my boss. Me. Same with GM's. When they make a move that seems good at the time but it doesn't pan out, IT WAS A BAD MOVE. You don't get a "well, we agreed with your bad move that you talked us into so we will keep you around." You get fired and someone else is brought in to make a good move. Your job is to KNOW what moves are good and bad.
jom2003
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don't even get me started on DL's track record in the draft...an absolute ********
Handlogten's Heros
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DL has been like a lot of GMs... hit and miss. He has not had the catastrophic fails (not drafting Luka, the BKN KG trade, max money to Biyombo) type of fails.
Draft record is good... has had some dud late first round picks that I hated at the time, but GMs all have hits and misses in that range. Rudy and DM are all stars picked outside the top 10... Hood was super solid. The only pick I didn't understand was TB but it was a late first and rarely pans out.
Exum was a fine pick at the time. Was surprised he was there. Turns out that draft was terrible.
My issues with DL is always on the fringes... pays 35% too much in a trade, sells second round picks rather that taking fliers, hoards cap space only to sign one year vets, waits too long to address issues, sometimes isn't aggressive enough making marginal improvements. He's not a trailblazer... he's kind of a follower imo. He will ride with guys too long too.
I don't want him fired. The Mike trade is not something I'd do over. I thought we paid too much at the time (thought 1 pick was enough). I'd have preferred DM as more of a PG or a bigger backcourt partner... but I understood the deal and the NBA had massive changes after it happened. He might shift his thinking had he had better knowledge. Overall he's probably top ten. He doesn't have the market advantages some guys have.
The organization is in a much better place than the KOC Ty Corbin era... we were headed for Suns/Kings treadmill territory.
Draft record is good... has had some dud late first round picks that I hated at the time, but GMs all have hits and misses in that range. Rudy and DM are all stars picked outside the top 10... Hood was super solid. The only pick I didn't understand was TB but it was a late first and rarely pans out.
Exum was a fine pick at the time. Was surprised he was there. Turns out that draft was terrible.
My issues with DL is always on the fringes... pays 35% too much in a trade, sells second round picks rather that taking fliers, hoards cap space only to sign one year vets, waits too long to address issues, sometimes isn't aggressive enough making marginal improvements. He's not a trailblazer... he's kind of a follower imo. He will ride with guys too long too.
I don't want him fired. The Mike trade is not something I'd do over. I thought we paid too much at the time (thought 1 pick was enough). I'd have preferred DM as more of a PG or a bigger backcourt partner... but I understood the deal and the NBA had massive changes after it happened. He might shift his thinking had he had better knowledge. Overall he's probably top ten. He doesn't have the market advantages some guys have.
The organization is in a much better place than the KOC Ty Corbin era... we were headed for Suns/Kings treadmill territory.
Handlogten's Heros
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Name 5 teams that have drafted better than us.
jom2003
Well-Known Member
Thunders, Raptors, Celtics, Warriors, Nuggets, Grizz, and you can throw Lakers in there too, since they've found Kuz, Josh Hart and Thomas Bryant in one draft, but their player development has been ****
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Handlogten's Heros
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So DL takes over in 2013 and lands Rudy #27... the next year he gets Hood at #23.... His biggest misses are Exum and Lyles (but he flips Lyles into DM) In 2017 he land DM...
He drafted two all stars outside the top ten... had some misses.
OKC since 2013 got Adams and whiffed on every other pick.
Boston got Smart #6, Brown at #3, Tatum at #3, KO in 2013 (passed on Giannis too), Terry Rozier at #16... and then have whiffed on a **** ton of picks like 6-7 firsts and high second rounders. Robert Williams is a wait and see. Ainge has been great in the top 6 and total **** outside of it.
Since 2013 Warriors best pick is Paschall in the second round... Looney end of first... whiffed on everything else.
Nuggets have been consistently good... problem is they traded Rudy and DM to us. They also whiffed on Mudiay #6. They have been better than us but those are pretty bad black eyes.
Memphis drafted Ja #2, Jackson #4... those aren't no brainers but still a lot easier finding talent in the top 5. They drafted Clarke as well, but outside of that they have whiffed hard.
Lakers landed the guys you mentioned... great! they also took Ball over Tatum/Fox, DLo over the Zinger... they had some other solid wins.
I will give you the Lakers and Nuggets... but I think when you look at the draft you have to look at wins and not losses. We have had some ****ing home run wins.
Handlogten's Heros
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Drafting I would say is one of DL's good points... we sold some picks which made me upset but that may have been more of Greggy's pocketbook. Didn't love the Lyles pick but understood it... The TB pick is the only total head scratcher imo. Half the league passed on Giannis.
Not utilizing his cap space to improve the team in the Haywood era is one of the big marks against him. That may have been Greg too. He botched the Haywood negotiation not understanding what the cap was going to do (everyone knew it was going to go crazy but teams were slow to make decisions based on it).
The one year rental pg carousel is his biggest issue. There are a lot of moving parts to that, but I think most of it can be traced to DL in some form or fashion.
He's helped put a culture in place here too. Would I rather have Ujiri or Riley? Yes! The tier of guys below that is where I'd put DL, Morey, Ainge, etc.
Not utilizing his cap space to improve the team in the Haywood era is one of the big marks against him. That may have been Greg too. He botched the Haywood negotiation not understanding what the cap was going to do (everyone knew it was going to go crazy but teams were slow to make decisions based on it).
The one year rental pg carousel is his biggest issue. There are a lot of moving parts to that, but I think most of it can be traced to DL in some form or fashion.
He's helped put a culture in place here too. Would I rather have Ujiri or Riley? Yes! The tier of guys below that is where I'd put DL, Morey, Ainge, etc.
jom2003
Well-Known Member
Since 2013, DL had 2 home run wins, 1 good pick in Rodney hood and the rest are entirely misses.
Boston since 2013 has 1 home run pick in Tatum(Tatum himself is solid, but they've got one additional pick from Fultz trade too), 4 good picks in Brown, KO, Smart and Rozier.
Let's say DM and Tatum cancel each other out, would you take Rudy+Hood over Brown+Smart+Rozer+Olynyk?
I won't.
And Robert Williams is a wait and see, sure. But in his second season he's already been contributing to Boston's playoff run at a high level. would you want him on our team, or any of the "wait and sees" (aka SCRUBs) in Bradley, Tucker, Oni, NWG or Brantley?
Warriors FO took Curry, Klay and Draymond in the draft that led to a dynasty but sure you only wanna talk about 2013 onwards in which they consistently had either picks in the late first/second round or no picks at all. Then besides Paschall, they also have taken Kevon Looney at 30th pick who is a solid role player in this league and performed well above average for players taken at that spot.
Same case for OKC, but this time it is Sam Presti who also happens to be the same guy that drafted three MVPs for OKC and all you wanna talk about is his record since 2013 in which he only had 2 picks in the lottery(DL by comparison had 4). And Presti nailed them both. Both Steven Adams and Sabonis turned out to be solid players and performed way better than their positions. I'd even consider Sabonis to be a home-run win because of how weak the 2016 draft was and he's already an all-star on his 4th season. Plus Andre Roberson before his injuries also provided good values for a guy taken at #26.
Could Presti have taken other players that are better? Yes. But it doesn't negate the fact that these are solid selections.
Like I said, DL had 4 picks in the lotto since 2013. And would you likewise consider Burke, Lyles and Dante to be solid selections at the position they were taken? No?
Memphis similarly had only 2 picks in the lottery since 2013. And they nailed them both. You now call JJJ and JA no-brainers, but surely you just can't miss those no-brainer pick, such as an Aussie kid who was touted as the Australian Kobe back in 2014, right?
Besides JJJ and JA, they also got Dillon Brooks and Brandon Clarke. Both these guys are starting caliber players in this league already and considered solid selections for the positions in which they were selected. I'd consider Clarke to be a home-run win given how well he's played in the minutes he's given and i just don't see why he won't keep on improving and have a career similar to Domanta Sabonis.