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Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

Saint Cy of JFC said:
The Jazz got a huge bundle of future unprotected picks. It will be extremely easy to avoid mediocrity.
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All those picks are 2025 and beyond. Being a play in team until then and then getting some picks in the 20's isn't gonna be some rocket to the championship.

I'll believe that they're not tanking when I see it.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
The Jazz got a huge bundle of future unprotected picks. It will be extremely easy to avoid mediocrity.
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The idea that we have to be the worst team in the league for a couple or more years to be really good later is kind of crazy. Most of the teams that have won it all dont really have any top 3 picks on their roster that they drafted. GS might be the closest with drafting Steph at 7. Lakers and Toronto traded for stars. the Bucks drafted Giannis at 15. Most of the teams that are really bad struggle to put a decent team around the young players and have to trade them away when they hit their prime anyways. I guess maybe if you go back to Spurs tanking for one year that is your best example, but that was a very rare situation and isnt likely to happen for any team. Jazz are in a great spot for awhile. They have a ton of picks and some good young prospects. If this team ends up being good we have plenty of picks to round out the roster and/or make a big trade for a star if one comes up for grabs we like. The draft is a crap shoot almost every year so just having a few decent picks and doing well with them is the best option.
 
Ron Mexico said:
The idea that we have to be the worst team in the league for a couple or more years to be really good later is kind of crazy. Most of the teams that have won it all dont really have any top 3 picks on their roster that they drafted. GS might be the closest with drafting Steph at 7. Lakers and Toronto traded for stars. the Bucks drafted Giannis at 15. Most of the teams that are really bad struggle to put a decent team around the young players and have to trade them away when they hit their prime anyways. I guess maybe if you go back to Spurs tanking for one year that is your best example, but that was a very rare situation and isnt likely to happen for any team. Jazz are in a great spot for awhile. They have a ton of picks and some good young prospects. If this team ends up being good we have plenty of picks to round out the roster and/or make a big trade for a star if one comes up for grabs we like. The draft is a crap shoot almost every year so just having a few decent picks and doing well with them is the best option.
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This is actually a really solid post.
 
Ron Mexico said:
The idea that we have to be the worst team in the league for a couple or more years to be really good later is kind of crazy. Most of the teams that have won it all dont really have any top 3 picks on their roster that they drafted. GS might be the closest with drafting Steph at 7. Lakers and Toronto traded for stars. the Bucks drafted Giannis at 15. Most of the teams that are really bad struggle to put a decent team around the young players and have to trade them away when they hit their prime anyways. I guess maybe if you go back to Spurs tanking for one year that is your best example, but that was a very rare situation and isnt likely to happen for any team. Jazz are in a great spot for awhile. They have a ton of picks and some good young prospects. If this team ends up being good we have plenty of picks to round out the roster and/or make a big trade for a star if one comes up for grabs we like. The draft is a crap shoot almost every year so just having a few decent picks and doing well with them is the best option.
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You are correct but it also shows even more how random the draft process is outside of the obvious top 1-3 who are shoe ins to be great - in some drafts. The most likely way to get back to something beyond a dumpster fire in the next few years is through trades more than the draft.
 
NUMBERICA said:
All those picks are 2025 and beyond. Being a play in team until then and then getting some picks in the 20's isn't gonna be some rocket to the championship.

I'll believe that they're not tanking when I see it.
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There is your answer. If we wait until 2025 to start cashing in picks, there is a good chance they start to lose value. The absolute best use of them would be to purchase what we want with them before they mature.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
How does what he is saying not make total sense? It's all very sensible.
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It sounds sensible, but please give me an example of a realistic sample non-Westbrook trade involving someone with a higher salary than Gay that helps us reduce our number of players and reduces our payroll significantly.

I think it's just working around the margins, like I said in my original comment. We're not going to be reducing the number of players that need to be waived. And they may not end up being easier cuts to make (do you prefer cutting Torrey Craig or Jae Crowder over Rudy Gay, for example)? And any fiscal savings will be relatively minor--a few million here and there at best--since there are no TPEs out there that can accommodate our larger salaries.

What am I missing here? How do individual trades help solve our (real) numbers crunch and our (non-real) salary crunch?
 
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idiot said:
It sounds sensible, but please give me an example of a realistic sample non-Westbrook trade involving someone with a higher salary than Gay that helps us reduce our number of players and reduces our payroll significantly.

I think it's just working around the margins, like I said in my original comment. We're not going to be reducing the number of players that need to be waived. And they may not end up being easier cuts to make (do you prefer cutting Torrey Craig or Jae Crowder over Rudy Gay, for example)? And any fiscal savings will be relatively minor--a few million here and there at best--since there are no TPEs out there that can accommodate our larger salaries.

What am I missing here? How do individual trades help solve our (real) numbers crunch and our (non-real) salary crunch?
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Not sure, couldn't give you a player off the top. Maybe that is what LA is banking on and why they are confident in standing their ground at only 1 pick.

Maybe Utah will throw in Jared Butler in a Bogey trade, or an Udoka. How much do they really believe in Udoka?
 
Ron Mexico said:
The idea that we have to be the worst team in the league for a couple or more years to be really good later is kind of crazy. Most of the teams that have won it all dont really have any top 3 picks on their roster that they drafted. GS might be the closest with drafting Steph at 7. Lakers and Toronto traded for stars. the Bucks drafted Giannis at 15. Most of the teams that are really bad struggle to put a decent team around the young players and have to trade them away when they hit their prime anyways. I guess maybe if you go back to Spurs tanking for one year that is your best example, but that was a very rare situation and isnt likely to happen for any team. Jazz are in a great spot for awhile. They have a ton of picks and some good young prospects. If this team ends up being good we have plenty of picks to round out the roster and/or make a big trade for a star if one comes up for grabs we like. The draft is a crap shoot almost every year so just having a few decent picks and doing well with them is the best option.
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While the above is correct, Zanick was also correct when he viewed the picks we have as assets to play. The primary thing is "The Plan" will involve the tank, assembling a good staff that knows how and when to make in-game and in-series adjustments (You hear me Quin, you ****!), savvy trades, good cap management, good flexibility, and decent chances in the draft. Basically some things Lindsey was not good at. Ainge built Boston's core in a few years, so I think he deserves a shot here.

I think something we are overstating is Utah's inability to sign FAs. Premier FAs won't sign with Utah when compared to a Miami or LA, but second tier FAs that are good to damn good role players? Yeah, we can do that. The primary thing for the picks is getting Superstar players in the draft. There's no surefire way to get them otherwise without blowing everything asset wise or doing something incredibly stupid. Ainge is playing a long game. Best enjoy the football season and let Danny cook.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Not sure, couldn't give you a player off the top. Maybe that is what LA is banking on and why they are confident in standing their ground at only 1 pick.

Maybe Utah will throw in Jared Butler in a Bogey trade, or an Udoka. How much do they really believe in Udoka?
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If this is the way we solve our numbers crunch, all it says to me is that the numbers crunch was not real in the first place.

If we throw in Butler or Dok, all that means is we don't care enough about them to keep them. So if we're not that invested in them, there's no real need have a trade involved. We could just waive them anyway. If something like this happens, it's more about saving a few million than anything else (which is fine, but hardly rises to the level of urgency that I thought Windhorst was portraying).
 
Celtics are looking for a Danilo Gallinari replacement. Their HC Brad Stevens was sitting in the crowd during the Eurobasket match Croatia-Finland, and was seen typing down notes. Whether he was there to check Bojan (of Croatia) or Lauri (of Finland) or just enjoying the match I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Celtics cooking up a trade-offer for either of those (would prolly need a third partner too, as I can't see there would be anything Celtics can offer that would interest Jazz).
 
Ron Mexico said:
The idea that we have to be the worst team in the league for a couple or more years to be really good later is kind of crazy. Most of the teams that have won it all dont really have any top 3 picks on their roster that they drafted. GS might be the closest with drafting Steph at 7. Lakers and Toronto traded for stars. the Bucks drafted Giannis at 15. Most of the teams that are really bad struggle to put a decent team around the young players and have to trade them away when they hit their prime anyways. I guess maybe if you go back to Spurs tanking for one year that is your best example, but that was a very rare situation and isnt likely to happen for any team. Jazz are in a great spot for awhile. They have a ton of picks and some good young prospects. If this team ends up being good we have plenty of picks to round out the roster and/or make a big trade for a star if one comes up for grabs we like. The draft is a crap shoot almost every year so just having a few decent picks and doing well with them is the best option.
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There are lots of routes to success (and failure) the sample shouldn’t be limited to title teams… should look at conference finals teams. We also can’t ignore that the Cavs don’t get Lebron if didn’t have Kyrie and another #1 pick to trade for Love… Lakers don’t win without AD and he was acquired using a couple guys drafted in the top 2 of the draft plus picks… the picks would not have been enough. Phoenix and Boston don’t make the finals without Ayton and Tatum.

Can you find a Giannis or Jokic… sure? But those are the biggest of outliers. Top 5 talent is the surest way to land one of the 2 or 3 all star level players you need. We aren’t GS/Miami/LA… so we aren’t grabbing stars in FA (and trades are somewhat an offshoot of FA these days).

We need to get lucky… the best way to improve that luck the next two years is to draft high and acquire other draft opportunities.
 
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