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Jackpotting Around 52 - Uproar Theory, Tankxiety, Keyonte, and Trade Talk

If the FO wants to tank but doesn't want to do it via resting, just find any trade that sends out Nurk and make the roster really badly unbalanced. Maybe nothing is available as far as other expirings, but that would be the easiest move.
 
KqWIN said:
Wrt to Key being a small guard and clutch defender....I don't think it really matters how small you are. It's just a matter of being a good defender. Lowry and FVV were both tiny but also great defenders. I am not really a believer in the predictive power of clutch performance, but kudos for actually mentioning clutch defense. Almost no one ever pays attention to it, and it's actually been our defense carrying our good clutch performance.

I can get behind the idea that Key and others are not as bad as they are now, but I think they have indeed been this bad so far. There's only one way to be 30th three years in a row.
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And while Trae is not 1:1 to Key, I do think his value is relevant to Key's. There was a time where a player with Key's production would be consider a no questions asked, fun max. The environment is different now with the aprons and also how teams value defense. We'll need more data points to truly understand what a max guy (or max rookie extension) is under this new CBA, but Trae having no value at that number is relevant to all guards whether they are better, worse, or the same level as Trae.
 
KqWIN said:
And while Trae is not 1:1 to Key, I do think his value is relevant to Key's. There was a time where a player with Key's production would be consider a no questions asked, fun max. The environment is different now with the aprons and also how teams value defense. We'll need more data points to truly understand what a max guy (or max rookie extension) is under this new CBA, but Trae having no value at that number is relevant to all guards whether they are better, worse, or the same level as Trae.
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I would be using that in my negotiations if I was a GM. I think my biggest issue with Trae is just that you have to play Trae ball on offense and then cover for him on defense. I think Key fits more like a Book or Murray type. The defense needs to improve and I don't think I give Key a max this offseason. I think you negotiate for some discounts and make him prove it in year 4 if its max or nothing from his side.

I think its a data point tho... I'd rather build with a player like Key over Trae though since he has on and off ball utility and has a chance to improve on defense and has at least shown some willingness to participate.
 
KqWIN said:
And while Trae is not 1:1 to Key, I do think his value is relevant to Key's. There was a time where a player with Key's production would be consider a no questions asked, fun max. The environment is different now with the aprons and also how teams value defense. We'll need more data points to truly understand what a max guy (or max rookie extension) is under this new CBA, but Trae having no value at that number is relevant to all guards whether they are better, worse, or the same level as Trae.
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Thank you for the listen. I agree 100% with what you’re saying here. Which is also why I said I’m not rushing to the table to give him a full 25% rookie max. I think Keyonte being about 5 inches taller bodes very well in his favor though especially if you can get him on a decent contract. 5/175M or so.
 
mhindy said:
If the FO wants to tank but doesn't want to do it via resting, just find any trade that sends out Nurk and make the roster really badly unbalanced. Maybe nothing is available as far as other expirings, but that would be the easiest move.
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We're 3pts/per 100 posessions better with Lauri/Key on the floor and Nurk off the floor than when all 3 of them play. Now this might not be the case for extended run, and by removing Nurk now our backup big situation at that point might be so bad, but that's a lot of mights with our pick on the line.

Not to single you out, but this is the exact kind of half measure that could give us the worst case scenario (losing a top 10 pick). Unfortunately we have already won too many games that we can't rely on half measures. If the front office is committed to keeping our pick we unfortunately have to be committed to sitting Lauri in my opinion.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
We're 3pts/per 100 posessions better with Lauri/Key on the floor and Nurk off the floor than when all 3 of them play. Now this might not be the case for extended run, and by removing Nurk now our backup big situation at that point might be so bad, but that's a lot of mights with our pick on the line.

Not to single you out, but this is the exact kind of half measure that could give us the worst case scenario (losing a top 10 pick). Unfortunately we have already won too many games that we can't rely on half measures. If the front office is committed to keeping our pick we unfortunately have to be committed to sitting Lauri in my opinion.
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Its not surprising but it seems weird the amount of people I have to fight on twitter to convince them that we are indeed not alright just taking half measures.

The FO is in fantasy world "we want to tank but we have all these superfluous constraints that we can't break". Svi/Kyle/Love/Niang/Nurk should be shopped aggressively or mothballed soon prior to the trade deadline. Send the Lakers one of them for like Kleber so the league is happy lol.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Its not surprising but it seems weird the amount of people I have to fight on twitter to convince them that we are indeed not alright just taking half measures.

The FO is in fantasy world "we want to tank but we have all these superfluous constraints that we can't break". Svi/Kyle/Love/Niang/Nurk should be shopped aggressively or mothballed soon prior to the trade deadline. Send the Lakers one of them for like Kleber so the league is happy lol.
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The problem is a ton of fans just want the team to be good and cheer for wins. They don’t really care if the team is perpetually in the play-in tournament or first-round exits.
 
Elizah Huge said:
The problem is a ton of fans just want the team to be good and cheer for wins. They don’t really care if the team is perpetually in the play-in tournament or first-round exits.
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I'm 100% fine with that. Just don't tell me the tank is fine... when its not. I find the anti-tankers endearing and principled for the most part.
 
I was listening to Zach Lowe and he was talking about the Jazz as huge tankers, like everyone else, and even said that we sat guys against Charlotte AND Dallas to lose both games. He must have just assumed and didn't realize that we actually played Lauri on a b2b and actually won the game.

So not only by half tanking do you not get the desired result, but you also don't even get the credit for not full tanking.
 
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SoberasHotRod said:
I was listening to Zach Lowe and he was talking about the Jazz as huge takers, like everyone else, and even said that we sat guys against Charlotte AND Dallas to lose both games. He must have just assumed and didn't realize that we actually played Lauri on a b2b and actually won the game.

So not only by half tanking do you not get the desired result, but you also don't get even get the credit for not full tanking.
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We have completely lost the PR/narrative part of this. I don't care what the media thinks but media influences more important people at times.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
I was listening to Zach Lowe and he was talking about the Jazz as huge takers, like everyone else, and even said that we sat guys against Charlotte AND Dallas to lose both games. He must have just assumed and didn't realize that we actually played Lauri on a b2b and actually won the game.

So not only by half tanking do you not get the desired result, but you also don't get even get the credit for not full tanking.
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You also get the maximum bad PR. We’ve only really tanked hard one season, which is much less than the majority of “homegrown” teams, but we receive the PR as if we had been tanking hard this whole time.

Then you add on the human element to this as well. Does it really feel any better that we half tanked 3 years ago instead of full tank? Patience is running out from fans and seemingly in the FO as well.

I often say building from the middle is not as bad as people make it out to be…but what the Jazz have done is actually horrible. The way they’ve minimized the rewards and maximized the downsides is almost artful.
 
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