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Racism and privilege

I agree with both Numb and One here.
I don't think One is demonizing all white people , he's just saying that racism is a real disadvantage for most black people in many life situations. Those are 2 different things.
An NPR story this week said that Doctors give different (arguably better) treatment to white patients, even if the Doctor is not white.
Go figure.
 
I am not white. White is a color and does not define me as a person and is demeaning. I am a western-european-american, and would appreciate it if you would all start referring to me as such.

Thank you.
 
I'm looking forward to seeing Sirkicky bring the hammer down on Stoked for multiple unconsolidated posts.
(#8, #9, #10.)

Stoked's posts aren't ideal there given that we have a multi-quote function, but at least all three posts are in response to different posters. If he ran it up much higher I probably would have consolidated them, but there's a fundamental difference between several posts in a row that all express continuations of a single thought and multiple posts that were made by hitting "reply with quote" to respond to single posts by other posters.
 
The privilege argument is a sloppy one that basically demonizes all white people in a way that is as false as the blanket racism applied by white people against everyone else for hundreds of years in this country.

This is a completely untrue conflation of two different bases for differing outcomes and two different roles that are occupied by those that benefit from the privilege of being a favored race/class.

Examples:

1830's: White person named "Ryan Johnson" is able to own a slave, treat him like property, pay him nothing for labor and enjoy protection by the laws of the state for his status.

2010's: White person named "Ryan Johnson" is more likely to get a job than equally qualified "LaShawn Perry" because of latent attitudes about race and class.

Recognizing the latter event as the product of "privilege" does not make the moral judgment that Ryan Johnson #2 is morally culpable in the same way as Ryan Johnson #1. Privilege, in many instances, is a way of describing objectively verifiable social phenomenon that occurs regularly and passively. Those who gain advantages from the privilege frequently do not seek them explicitly, and they often have no way of perceiving that the privilege is real because, for example, Ryan Johnson #2 above has no idea that LaShawn Perry even exists, much less what his qualifications are. In Rumsfeldian terms, to the person who benefitted from the privilege, the person who did not is an "unknown unknown."

Where you run into problems is when people try to deny that privilege exists. That kind of willful ignorance has the effect, if not the intention, of ensuring that privilege persists rather than erodes across generational time.
 
This is a completely untrue conflation of two different bases for differing outcomes and two different roles that are occupied by those that benefit from the privilege of being a favored race/class.

Examples:

1830's: White person named "Ryan Johnson" is able to own a slave, treat him like property, pay him nothing for labor and enjoy protection by the laws of the state for his status.

2010's: White person named "Ryan Johnson" is more likely to get a job than equally qualified "LaShawn Perry" because of latent attitudes about race and class.

Recognizing the latter event as the product of "privilege" does not make the moral judgment that Ryan Johnson #2 is morally culpable in the same way as Ryan Johnson #1. Privilege, in many instances, is a way of describing objectively verifiable social phenomenon that occurs regularly and passively. Those who gain advantages from the privilege frequently do not seek them explicitly, and they often have no way of perceiving that the privilege is real because, for example, Ryan Johnson #2 above has no idea that LaShawn Perry even exists, much less what his qualifications are. In Rumsfeldian terms, to the person who benefitted from the privilege, the person who did not is an "unknown unknown."

Where you run into problems is when people try to deny that privilege exists. That kind of willful ignorance has the effect, if not the intention, of ensuring that privilege persists rather than erodes across generational time.

Of which I think we have seen a dramatic acceleration of with our and our children's generations. Long, long overdue.
 
Stoked's posts aren't ideal there given that we have a multi-quote function, but at least all three posts are in response to different posters. If he ran it up much higher I probably would have consolidated them, but there's a fundamental difference between several posts in a row that all express continuations of a single thought and multiple posts that were made by hitting "reply with quote" to respond to single posts by other posters.
Cherry pickin data and twisting the truth. Whatev, it's not worth the time. Go ahead and nitpick over technicalities all you want.
 
Of which I think we have seen a dramatic acceleration of with our and our children's generations. Long, long overdue.

You know, surprising to me but my wife works with a lot of 17-19 year olds and several of them are openly racist. A few have expressed how much they hate Asians, for instance, as though it's perfectly okay to state openly in the workplace that you hate Asians. It makes me wonder if we've taken our foot off the gas a little and younger adults don't see racism as an unacceptable view like I know my generation did.
 
Cherry pickin data and twisting the truth. Whatev, it's not worth the time. Go ahead and nitpick over technicalities all you want.

You're upset because Stoked made 3 posts in a row? That's what you're talking about?
 
I'm not sure that things are really getting better for the majority of "black" Americans, even though there certainly are opportunities for some.
 
I'm not sure that things are really getting better for the majority of "black" Americans, even though there certainly are opportunities for some.

Things may not be getting better. Even if racism is eradicated things don't actually have to get better for black Americans in a material sense. While there is certainly a connection between opportunities (or lack thereof) and racism, even if racism magically disappeared today there are other realities that carry a certain inertia that would keep many poor black people in the situation they're in.

The end of racism and the end of white privilege would not necessarily mean all black people enjoy the quality of life that the average white person has.

EDIT: reworded for clarity
 
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Entitlement and accountability are more of an issue, which include every race.

Thinking something is owed to you because of "blablabla" and always having someone or something to blame because something did not go your way and you didn't get what you want.

Lets turn this into something basketball related. Stockton rarely complained about calls, he would just purse his lips and get to work. Danny Ainge on the other hand was also a good player but was wronged by every whistle blown his direction. How many fans appreciate the whining to refs over the buckle down and get it done attitude Stockton showed?

Maybe it's just in my face more, but I see/hear much more of the whining to refs out there in the world than the buckle down and make things happen attitude. I find those that do not complain even if they have a reason to, and find them to be extraordinary people. It also seems that they seem to make their good luck and good things eventually happen for them.

If you focus on the negative, you will find it.
If you focus on the good, you will also find it.

The surest way to fix problems is to not dwell on the problem, and not to tell other people how to act... but to show other people how to act and to promote the solution every day in who you are.

It's very similar to the trick where a friend says to you " Don't think about ice cream"... and you end up thinking about ice cream.

/rant
 
Ainge won wherever he went. One of my favorite players ever.
Most all players complained. (Stockton might have been the rare exception. )
Refs listen to some and put others in their place.
 
You know, surprising to me but my wife works with a lot of 17-19 year olds and several of them are openly racist. A few have expressed how much they hate Asians, for instance, as though it's perfectly okay to state openly in the workplace that you hate Asians. It makes me wonder if we've taken our foot off the gas a little and younger adults don't see racism as an unacceptable view like I know my generation did.

Oh it is still a problem but I think that each new generation focuses less and less on race. Good sign.
 
Oh it is still a problem but I think that each new generation focuses less and less on race. Good sign.

No, that's a bad sign. Inequalities exist, and they are very much structural and not individual. Not focusing on race just maintains the status quo. When I hear middle-class white kids say "Oh, I don't see race, I just see people," I wanna punch them in the stomach, kick them to the ground, then stop on their stupid little skulls until they pass out. I'm pretty sure we're all supposed to develop object permanence by the time we're two.

Just because you "don't see" racism, it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Whether you are personally racist or not has no bearing on the conditions on the Tsúùtínà reserve a block from my house.
 
We will only really know racism is gone (one way or the other) when it is no longer a regular topic of conversation.
 
But it is true. Perhaps I should clarify that it is leftish politicians and new outlets mostly. Distinguish them from the people.

I agree with that.

Rightish politicians and media haven't been racist either? Methinks you need to turn into Foxnews, AM radio, or listen to Bro Beck. It's not even constrained to just "conservative media" but religion as well. One should also visit their local caucus here in Utah (Utah County in particular. The comments made at the GOP caucus here in Utah County about the Utah Compact were outrageous), ward, or even local BYU University. Or did I just imagine that this happened last year?

https://www.abc4.com/content/news/t...ersial-statements/viRppZCGfEyX4U9RI5aYXw.cspx

During an interview with The Washington Post BYU Professor Randy Bott’s explains the denial of priesthood to blacks as saving them from “the lowest rungs of hell reserved for people who abuse their priesthood powers.”

Bott quoted as saying, "You couldn't fall off the top of the ladder because you weren't on the top of the ladder. So, in reality the blacks not having the priesthood was the greatest blessing god could give them."

My point is, a few people may point about racism in regards to Obama's critics (which... Anyone objective would admit that this has led to a surge in criticisms and critics. Hell, lets not act like asking to see the President's birth certificate was just an accident). The right(ish) is completely expert in racism. The right trying to accuse the left of racism is like Shaq trying to make fun of someone's free throw shooting.
 
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