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101 Hayward Heaves

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franklin

Well-Known Member
My analysis of the first 101 available for viewing Hayward 3 point shots from past the break (excludes corner threes).

Overall
36.1%


Spot up*
18 of 48, 37.5%


PnR
4 of 10, 40%


Long pull ups
0 of 3


Heave
0 of 2


DHO
7 of 11, 64%


Pull ups
9 of 22, 41%


Contested Spot ups
1 of 11, 9%


It's very clear watching all these shots that Hayward is very good when he can get his feet set in rhythm (Dribble Hand offs, PNR, Pull ups), and very bad when he has to catch and shoot, step back pull ups, shooting off the move, and basically anything where he is hustled to throw it up. I could probably predict with about 75% accuracy which shots he would make and which would be cringe clanks.

I might finish up the other 100 shots but the NBA stats site is incredibly slow and stalls...

*Includes catch-and-shoots
 
^^^

That's a real pity he isn't better from catch and shoots cos Exum and Burke will be doing a lot of ball handling this coming season.


Exum has already publicly griped about how he'd wished he'd have the ball in his hands more during SL.
 
Practice practice practice. He needs to shoot 100+ 3's after practices on catch and shoot and spot up situations, with half of them being contested in some random way(ranging from a hand in the face to aggressively going at him), and half of those in a simulated short clock situation. That is a bread and butter shot and he needs to really nail those. If he can bump those to 40%+ he will be viewed as a legit 3 point threat and demand attention on the perimeter, which will open up his drive and dish game and/or cuts. But for a supposed 3 pt threat, sub-40 on spot ups, which should be gimmes for a guy like Hayward, does not engender fear in the opponent. That said, considering how much he was called on to orchestrate that 36% isn't terrible. Get Exum and others to take a bit of pressure of Gordo and I think you will see a marked improvement.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Practice practice practice. He needs to shoot 100+ 3's after practices on catch and shoot and spot up situations, with half of them being contested in some random way(ranging from a hand in the face to aggressively going at him), and half of those in a simulated short clock situation. That is a bread and butter shot and he needs to really nail those. If he can bump those to 40%+ he will be viewed as a legit 3 point threat and demand attention on the perimeter, which will open up his drive and dish game and/or cuts. But for a supposed 3 pt threat, sub-40 on spot ups, which should be gimmes for a guy like Hayward, does not engender fear in the opponent. That said, considering how much he was called on to orchestrate that 36% isn't terrible. Get Exum and others to take a bit of pressure of Gordo and I think you will see a marked improvement.
Click to expand...

Agreed 100% on the situational practice bit. Problem with shooting practice is coaches like you to hop-catch & shoot in rhythm, which is fine for high school and college kids. Hayward does this extremely well from what I saw. He needs to get much more aggressive with his shooting training by learning to shoot at NBA speed. This is probably the same issue with his long and intermediate 2 percentage.


The main problem I saw was a poor offense demanding Hayward to make quick release shots like Kyle Korver. He isn't Korver, who doesn't need rhythm and can set his feet and shoulders as quick as any. Hayward cannot, he's more of a flow-rhythm player like Kobe. He needs to find a way to make that work for him.

Also, a lot of the missed rush shots were not pump fake and drive situations. In fact, I don't recall a single one where running him off the line was a legitimate offensive weapon.

Thx the feedback, Lowgrade.
 
The biggest problem for most shooters in game situations, imo, is squaring to the basket. When you are a bit off-balance or someone is coming at you or riding your hip it is human nature to try to fling it up there while turning. You can see this when they miss wide, instead of long or short. From what I saw last season Hayward generated a lot of whacky bounces on rebounds, which would point to not squaring to the basket. I get it, it is human nature to both turn your body to protect yourself against contact and to keep the ball from the defender, but it makes for a sloppy shot. This is what he needs to practice. In high school our coach would have us literally bump into each other on the catch and shoot practices, from different angles and with different levels of impact, so we would learn to square up on the move and with contact and it made us all better shooters. We got tons of and-1's because we could take the hit, square up, and follow through.

Another decent practice for this was we mounted a broom handle or similar to the top of the backboard so it stuck out about 3 feet or so in front of the rim and hung a t-shirt from the end, and we worked on just hitting the t-shirt on the mid-range shots. It helped drive the right shooting angle and force when we were youngsters learning to control our bodies on the move while shooting and gave a better response for correct form than waiting to see if it went through the hoop or bounced out.
 
I also think a lot of it was knowing where he gets his shots (or in the case last year, not knowing). As a shooter, when you know when the shots are coming, you are just more mentally prepared to shoot them right. Obviously if he is going to step his game up, he has to get better at shooting more types of shots, but I think that was a huge problem.

In "Alfense" the shots were predictable off Big Al post-ups, and he really excelled in his spots.
 
Get a huge payday first, THEN learn how to do your job. Amazing.

Gordon Hayward, you're my idol, I want to be just like you...
 
franklin said:
Agreed 100% on the situational practice bit. Problem with shooting practice is coaches like you to hop-catch & shoot in rhythm, which is fine for high school and college kids. Hayward does this extremely well from what I saw. He needs to get much more aggressive with his shooting training by learning to shoot at NBA speed. This is probably the same issue with his long and intermediate 2 percentage.


The main problem I saw was a poor offense demanding Hayward to make quick release shots like Kyle Korver. He isn't Korver, who doesn't need rhythm and can set his feet and shoulders as quick as any. Hayward cannot, he's more of a flow-rhythm player like Kobe. He needs to find a way to make that work for him.

Also, a lot of the missed rush shots were not pump fake and drive situations. In fact, I don't recall a single one where running him off the line was a legitimate offensive weapon.

Thx the feedback, Lowgrade.
Click to expand...
1. What's a DHO? Other than catch and shoots, what's included in spot ups?

2. Depending on the answer to the question above, is 37.5% on spot ups all that good? If, as you say, Hayward is not a good shooter on the move, and he doesn't become more effective attacking the rim off the bounce, where is his value on a good team?
 
GVC said:
1. What's a DHO? Other than catch and shoots, what's included in spot ups?

2. Depending on the answer to the question above, is 37.5% on spot ups all that good? If, as you say, Hayward is not a good shooter on the move, and he doesn't become more effective attacking the rim off the bounce, where is his value on a good team?
Click to expand...

1.a dribble hand off. 1.b I included catch and shoots into spot up shots b/c I forgot to add the catch n shoot column and didn't feel like starting over. Other than that, they're more or less open 3's off penetration and dish, pnr and dish.

2. I'm sharing an inquiry and everyone can make of it what they will. I don't care to grind that Hayward contract agenda axe down to the hilt atm.
 
franklin said:
2. I'm sharing an inquiry and everyone can make of it what they will. I don't care to grind that Hayward contract agenda axe down to the hilt atm.
Click to expand...
I could have worded the question differently, as I don't care to discuss his contract anymore.

I mostly want to discuss how talent fits together, and how to efficiently build a good team. Gordo gives you a little bit of everything. That little bit of everything translates well on a team with very little mature talent. Unfortunately, I don't consider Gordo an elite on-ball, off-ball or defensive player. On a team with better on-ball players, is the little bit of everything Gordo gives you more valuable than what a specialist (defender/shooter) would give you?

I suspect it's not, but a few years ago I would have thought differently. This was the source of my disagreements with billyshelby, who valued players with on-ball/athletic potential more than I did (pretty sure he still does). This question is pretty important for the Jazz moving forward, depending on what the organization's goals are. Can a team filled with relatively intelligent, competent players with no elite-level skills contend? How might Hayward fit on a good team?
 
franklin said:
My analysis of the first 101 available for viewing Hayward 3 point shots from past the break (excludes corner threes).

Overall
36.1%


Spot up*
18 of 48, 37.5%


PnR
4 of 10, 40%


Long pull ups
0 of 3


Heave
0 of 2


DHO
7 of 11, 64%


Pull ups
9 of 22, 41%


Contested Spot ups
1 of 11, 9%


It's very clear watching all these shots that Hayward is very good when he can get his feet set in rhythm (Dribble Hand offs, PNR, Pull ups), and very bad when he has to catch and shoot, step back pull ups, shooting off the move, and basically anything where he is hustled to throw it up. I could probably predict with about 75% accuracy which shots he would make and which would be cringe clanks.

I might finish up the other 100 shots but the NBA stats site is incredibly slow and stalls...

*Includes catch-and-shoots
Click to expand...

Good work! I also broke down a bunch of his stats and came up with pretty much the same results a few weeks back. I also came to the conclusion he was worse in Catch and Shoot situations compared to Dribble Hand offs, PNR, and Pull ups like you did. A couple other interesting notes is: He shoots a lower 3pt% from the corners 28.6% last year, On PNR last year he had a turnover 22% of the time. Hayward also shot better when playing the SG compared to playing SF position. I think he might have struggled more guarding the SG position although I am not positive about this and have not looked that much into the defensive side of the court for Gordon. I like when people actually do their homework before posting something. I have seen a few people post Hayward is a much better off the Catch and Shoot but never replied because I find it pointless to get in a argument with them.
 
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