2011 draft.....

[Hantlers]

I've thought a lot about Kyrie Irving that is projected to go #1 in the draft.
He played well in the first 8 games of the season as a freshman.
The teams he played against were either bad teams, or ended up being teams not as good as people thought they were at the beginning of the year.
He shot great, and was a good assist man.

Ok, here's what bugs me.
He is a freshman that only has played in 8 College games total.
He is the exact same size and weight of Nolan Smith, also on the Dukies.
Smith does not have the shooting percentages of Irving, but he also played the whole year which may have some ups and downs, and his percentages are not bad.
Smith averaged 5 more points a game, the same assists, 2 more rebounds, and did this not only against the same teams Irving played against, but also all of the teams in their conference.

I think it's possible that Irving will not be the next John Wall like people think if his numbers were fluky. It is possible Smith will end up being the better point. Unless I am missing something, I am really starting to hope we don't pick Irving even if he's on the board.

I'm saying this knowing full well Coach K put Irving in to start for Duke as a freshman, so he must be good.... but Smith started for them too, so he is no slouch either.

Nolan Smith is a very good college player, but as a pro prospect he's nowhere near the level of Irving. So let's look at some facts here.

- With a senior Final Four MVP Kyle Singler and a senior Nolan Smith returning, Coach K tailored his offense around a true freshman in Kyrie Irving.
- Nolan Smith goes to Kyrie Irving for advice on how to play PG.....a senior off guard is going to a true freshman for advice on playing the point. And lets not forget this senior off guard is very much in the contention for NPOY
- Kyrie Irving shut down a senior All-Big 12 guard in Jacob Pullen in like his 2nd or 3rd game (can't remember which one)
- If you have watched Duke play at all, it is pretty obvious that Kyrie Irving is a much, much better PG than Nolan Smith, and that's not to discredit Smith at all because he is a very good guard. Irving is just that much better.
- As a true freshman starting for Duke, that's an enormous amount of pressure people, in his limited time he is shooting 53% from 2, 45% from 3, and about 90% from the FT line. That is absolutely ridiculous.
- Nolan Smith didn't start for Duke as a freshman.....not that many people do. Especially at PG. And not to discredit Smith at all, but his scoring average spiked way up after Irving's injury because he's basically the only reliable scorer on that team now. I'm not a big fan of Singler. Pesonally, I think he sucks, but I'll write about that some other time if needed.

 

[Hantlers]

I understand he's had a so so freshman season. Seems like he coming on lately though. Let's see how he plays from here on out.
Not worth a top ten pick? This draft is so weak I don't see how you could say something like that.
The kid is obviously very gifted, and worth a long look.

First off regarding the not worth a top ten pick.....I don't care if this draft is weak. If you're in the top 10 you want to get an impact player, or at the least, a starter. Harrison Barnes is neither of these. So what I'm saying is that if there isn't a player worth taking in the top 10 then trade your pick for one next year. Don't take a player that early just because he's one of the better players in a weak draft. Trade out of it, we have time to get better.

Secondly, him coming on lately is a huge misconception by the media. Let's look at some stats.

In the last 10 games, Harrison Barnes is averaging 17.9 PPG....Now I know what you're thinking, that's a good number, and it really is. But he's also shooting 42% from 2 and 32.8% from 3. And this is from a "shooting guard". Now to get even more specific, in the last 5 games, Harrison Barnes is averaging 16.4 PPG (still a good number) BUT 38% from 2 and 27 % from 3. Those are absolutely terrible numbers, I don't care who it is. For comparison his year long averages are 13.9 PPG, 41% from 2 and 32 % from 3. And lets not forget that the ACC outside of Duke, UNC, and maybe Florida State is absolutely terrible this year. Actually, most of CBB is pretty bad this year, just not a lot of good teams this year.

Now, Barnes is a very good rebounding guard. He's a solid player. He's smart. He has good form on his shot. But he's just not the player people think he is. He was handed the keys to UNC by Roy Williams, basically told that he would be the star player on offense and the amount of shots he's taken reflects that. But in a relatively weak year for college basketball he can't play that well, let alone dominate. BTW, guess who actually has similar numbers, except for way better shooting percentages as a freshman than Harrison Barnes does? Gordon Hayward. Granted in his 2nd year Hayward's 3 point percentage was terrible (30% I think), but Hayward is a much better 2 guard than Barnes is. Much better.

 

[Favors Flave]

Well according to your theory then Hayward wasn't worth taking. He isn't an impact player or starter

 

[Hantlers]

Well according to your theory then Hayward wasn't worth taking. He isn't an impact player or starter

Technically yes...and I wasn't happy with the pick of Hayward at the time of all but he's grown on me. I can't say that I watched him a lot during college so I decided I would try to watch a lot of his tape. What I saw actually impressed me. He was easily the best player on Butler's team. He has a nice shot, he can take people to the hoop off the dribble (something I can't see Barnes doing in the NBA) and is surprisingly athletic. Obviously as we have seen he has very good vision and is willing to pass the ball. Harrison Barnes is a black hole at the moment, doesn't like to pass the ball much. Hayward can also post people up, just doesn't have the strength to do it in the pro's yet. So while I did not like the pick of Hayward at the time, he is growing on me. I think that he can be a good player, a solid starter.

And maybe Barnes will improve dramatically as the season goes on, but as of right now, you can't deny that Gordon Hayward's freshman year was much more impressive than Barnes' freshman year has been so far.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Nolan Smith is a very good college player, but as a pro prospect he's nowhere near the level of Irving. So let's look at some facts here.

- With a senior Final Four MVP Kyle Singler and a senior Nolan Smith returning, Coach K tailored his offense around a true freshman in Kyrie Irving.
- Nolan Smith goes to Kyrie Irving for advice on how to play PG.....a senior off guard is going to a true freshman for advice on playing the point. And lets not forget this senior off guard is very much in the contention for NPOY
- Kyrie Irving shut down a senior All-Big 12 guard in Jacob Pullen in like his 2nd or 3rd game (can't remember which one)
- If you have watched Duke play at all, it is pretty obvious that Kyrie Irving is a much, much better PG than Nolan Smith, and that's not to discredit Smith at all because he is a very good guard. Irving is just that much better.
- As a true freshman starting for Duke, that's an enormous amount of pressure people, in his limited time he is shooting 53% from 2, 45% from 3, and about 90% from the FT line. That is absolutely ridiculous.
- Nolan Smith didn't start for Duke as a freshman.....not that many people do. Especially at PG. And not to discredit Smith at all, but his scoring average spiked way up after Irving's injury because he's basically the only reliable scorer on that team now. I'm not a big fan of Singler. Pesonally, I think he sucks, but I'll write about that some other time if needed.

Ok, that is good for the limited time he played there, and I know he is good.
I just don't think he is as good as people make out.
I also don't care what Nolan Smith did a few years ago, we are talking about right now.
Smith's averages for those same 8 games were close to the same as Irving.
He shot 52% from the field, but was only 32% from 3. They averaged the same in points, and assists, but Smith got more boards. Irving had more steals and blocks.
I think this does mean Irving is more athletic, and is younger.... but my point is that Smith is pretty dang close, and what Irving would have done the rest of the year is unknown. We know what Smith did the rest of the year.... started putting up POY type numbers.

I'm just saying there is room for doubt for me.

 

[Hantlers]

Ok, that is good for the limited time he played there, and I know he is good.
I just don't think he is as good as people make out.
I also don't care what Nolan Smith did a few years ago, we are talking about right now.
Smith's averages for those same 8 games were close to the same as Irving.
He shot 52% from the field, but was only 32% from 3. They averaged the same in points, and assists, but Smith got more boards. Irving had more steals and blocks.
I think this does mean Irving is more athletic, and is younger.... but my point is that Smith is pretty dang close, and what Irving would have done the rest of the year is unknown. We know what Smith did the rest of the year.... started putting up POY type numbers.

I'm just saying there is room for doubt for me.

I kinda hate doing this, because I really like Smith as a player. He's fun to watch and is always having fun. But look at the difference in how each player scored.
Irving has an excellent set shot, but can also shoot off the move pretty well.
Smith on the other hand has a pretty good set shot as well, but it's a pretty slow shot. He won't get the opportunity to do that in the NBA. He scores most of his points from open 3's or from driving to the hoop. Now this isn't a bad thing, but he's not the most athletic player ever. He won't be able to drive to the hoop in the NBA like he does in college. And while he does have a good assist average, you should see the amount of assist's he's missing out on. He's not very good at passing into the paint. He can't really run the pick and roll. He definitely looks for his shot more than he does to pass. Smith is a good player, but he's not a PG. He's a tweener. He's a SG in a PG's body. He also needs to have the ball in his hands to play like he does. Irving on the other hand is a true PG. He is almost everything you want from a PG. Both are good players, but Smith, IMO, will not be a starter in the NBA.

 

[Revolution 9]

First off regarding the not worth a top ten pick.....I don't care if this draft is weak. If you're in the top 10 you want to get an impact player, or at the least, a starter. Harrison Barnes is neither of these. So what I'm saying is that if there isn't a player worth taking in the top 10 then trade your pick for one next year. Don't take a player that early just because he's one of the better players in a weak draft. Trade out of it, we have time to get better.

Secondly, him coming on lately is a huge misconception by the media. Let's look at some stats.

In the last 10 games, Harrison Barnes is averaging 17.9 PPG....Now I know what you're thinking, that's a good number, and it really is. But he's also shooting 42% from 2 and 32.8% from 3. And this is from a "shooting guard". Now to get even more specific, in the last 5 games, Harrison Barnes is averaging 16.4 PPG (still a good number) BUT 38% from 2 and 27 % from 3. Those are absolutely terrible numbers, I don't care who it is. For comparison his year long averages are 13.9 PPG, 41% from 2 and 32 % from 3. And lets not forget that the ACC outside of Duke, UNC, and maybe Florida State is absolutely terrible this year. Actually, most of CBB is pretty bad this year, just not a lot of good teams this year.

Now, Barnes is a very good rebounding guard. He's a solid player. He's smart. He has good form on his shot. But he's just not the player people think he is. He was handed the keys to UNC by Roy Williams, basically told that he would be the star player on offense and the amount of shots he's taken reflects that. But in a relatively weak year for college basketball he can't play that well, let alone dominate. BTW, guess who actually has similar numbers, except for way better shooting percentages as a freshman than Harrison Barnes does? Gordon Hayward. Granted in his 2nd year Hayward's 3 point percentage was terrible (30% I think), but Hayward is a much better 2 guard than Barnes is. Much better.

You've obviously know a lot more about him than I do. Would you be more ok with him playing the 3 for us?
I'm all for Hay playing the 2, and think he can start for us next year there. I belive his jump shot is going to be rock solid.

If Barnes is a solid player as a Freshman are you at least curious to see how he developes? Not everyone can come in and dominate in their first year.
Let's give this kid a chance at least. Doesn't he deserve a long look?

 

[Jazz4ever]

Would anyone trade the Nets pick if #5-7 for Paul George?
George has been playing some decent ball lately and Pacers might
be interested.
Jazz get player they passed over last year and might wish they had taken.

If Terrence Jones is off the board I probably would.

 

[NUMBERICA]

You've obviously know a lot more about him than I do. Would you be more ok with him playing the 3 for us?
I'm all for Hay playing the 2, and think he can start for us next year there. I belive his jump shot is going to be rock solid.

If Barnes is a solid player as a Freshman are you at least curious to see how he developes? Not everyone can come in and dominate in their first year.
Let's give this kid a chance at least. Doesn't he deserve a long look?

This is my feeling as well. And if it's known (or at least believed, remember, the 2009 draft was supposed to be horrible) this draft is weak, how good of a return are you going to get trading out considering you don't really know what you're giving up?

Also, Barnes is not a SG. He's a SF if anything, and more of a hybrid F than a wing. The SG class this year is terrible.

Also, draft Justin Holiday in the 2nd round. He looks as good to me as any SG in this draft.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Let's also remember that our 2nd rounder moves up with losses as well. Hurray?

I also like Charles Jenkins as a 2nd rounder. Jon Leuer intrigues me, but I don't think he would translate to the NBA.

 

[prodigy]

Faried's sr. season vs. Millsap's sr. season:

nearly identical PER, EFF, Pts/Pos

i don't know where he'll be picked, i've seen as high as the lottery and as low as the late 2nd round. but in a draft considered weak I wouldn't mind adding a guy like him.

 

[Dwill4mvp]

Harrison Barnes

Please draft this kid. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tI3cDCcuOV8

I love how he was undefeated is final two years in high school. Although, he played in the CIML conference in Iowa, it's really not that bad of a conference. Plenty of kids went Division One. He also has been a part of this North Carolina turn around. This team was in the NIT last year. They lost some good players and are now a very competitive team. This kid seems clutch and I think could develop a killer instinct. He is very smart. He is not a chucker. The thing some people may have a problem with is his defense against a two. But, he really has not had that much of a problem. Guys from North Carolina are usually intense players, and play good defense. I want this kid for our future SG.