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2011 draft.....

billyshelby said:
Guys who suddenly become great shooters scare me no matter how big the sample. It's a concern, not a dealbreaker, but you want to try and understand why he had such a sharp spike in his outside shooting ability.

I agree completely that KOC will/should dangle the 12 to move back and/or out of the draft entirely after the 6.
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Has your general opinion changed on this matter, or do you believe that Brewer turning into Rip Hamilton with no evidence at all is more likely than a kid that has actually shot well turning into a kid that can shoot well?

P.S. I'm being an *******.
 
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NUMBERICA said:
Has your general opinion changed on this matter, or do you believe that Brewer turning into Rip Hamilton with no evidence at all is more likely than a kid that has actually shot well turning into a kid that can shoot well?

P.S. I'm being an *******.
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I'll play along anyway. I never compared Brewer to Rip, shooting or otherwise. The comparison I made of our young wings at the time was Brewer to Prince; Miles to Hamilton. I thought Brewer could turn into a defensive ace like Prince, and offensively he could learn to be an effective enough jumpshooter to accentuate his slashing game. With Miles, I expected him to shoot a lot better than he has. I still do. But I don't think either Brewer or Miles are going to be as good as Prince or Hamilton in their primes. Well, I still think Miles has a shot. But Brewer's inability to develop a jumper leads me to believe he's going to be a defensive specialist off the bench the rest of his career.
 
Qman said:
The downside is he is 21 so you can't really hope that he suddenly becomes a passing point guard. So do we want a scorer/combo guard at 12?
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I think he'll be like Ray Felton or Roddy Beaubois. Not bad for a 3rd guard if we're into keeping Harris.
 
As most of you know, I often change my opinion rapidly. But I'm bored, am getting sick of waiting for the lottery and feel like typing something to make myself feel more important. Deal with it. So as of right now, at our current selections of #6 and #12, here are the two players I want, why I want them, and how I think they will make our team better.

#6 -Enes Kanter

I'm gonna be honest, I don't actually think he'll be here. He is, IMO, after Kyrie Irving and kind of Derrick Williams the one sure fire player in this draft. He will succeed, I have absolutely no doubt in that. His offensive polish is off the charts, anytime the majority of scouts say that an 18 year old plays with the mentality of somebody who is in their 30's, that is a player you want. But the reason I want him over Biyombo and others (Knight, etc...I'll explain later) is because he will improve our team more. With a front court of Kanter and Favors we have a player in Kanter who has a mid-range game, low-post game, good passer and good post moves who will have good position on defense but never be a game changer there. We also have Favors who is starting to develop a low-post game, but as of right now does not have a consistent mid-range shot. I personally think that to run an effective offense you need a High-Low post game...Kanter and Favors does that.

Obviously a common complain to Kanter is that we have a similar player in Jefferson. Absolutely true. But....Kanter is a younger and IMO, better offensive player than Jefferson. So my idea is to draft Kanter, develop him under Jefferson for a year and then use Jefferson as a trading chip to get a needed player (most likely PG). Reason I don't want Knight is because well....we don't need a 6'3-6'4 combo guard, we need a point guard. Personally, I think Devin Harris is a better PG than Knight. I'll probably delve into this more in a later post, this is already long as hell and I'm barely half-way through. Reason I am wary of Biyombo (and yes, I know I have spoken highly of him before) is because I just don't think he matches well with Favors. With him and Favors we have two players who pre-dominantly play in the low-post. When Detroit had Ben Wallace they had Rasheed Wallace who could stretch the floor and McDyess who could hit a mid-range shot (If I'm missing players please inform me, my memory is shady). Essentially, I think Kanter improves our team the most out of the likely players at #6.

#12 -Kawhi Leonard

I already know what you're thinking....another defensive minded SF who is limited offensively. Yep, I'm going there. This isn't just about picking the best player, but picking the player that will help our team the most. Important to remember. You NEED players like this to win. He will bring intensity and toughness to a lineup that desperately needs it. I know he often gets compared to Shawn Marion, but IMO, he's a more athletic/weaker version of Ron Artest without the mental issues. He is absolutely not a good shooter right now. But he has a tremendous work ethic, and the potential to improve his shot. He'll obviously never be Kyle Korver/Reggie Miller, but his defense is more important to me than that. I honestly don't think you can win championships without players like this. The reason I want him over Alec Burks is because of Hayward. Burks is a 2, so is Hayward. I think a lineup with Burks at 2 and Hayward at 3 is much weaker than Hayward at 2 and Leonard at 3. Jimmer is Jimmer....I don't want him.

Now just for a minute, picture a lineup of:

PG: Devin Harris
SG: Gordan Hayward
SF: Kawhi Leonard
PF: Derrick Favors
C: Al Jefferson/Enes Kanter

By no means is that a championship or probably even playoff team next year, but damnit, it will be. Just the thought of a team like that excites the hell out of me.

And now is the end of my long winded draft thoughts in which apparently I think I know something about the sport of basketball (I don't, trust me).
If you read this, I'm sorry I wasted your time (I'm actually not).
 
Hantlers said:
As most of you know, I often change my opinion rapidly. But I'm bored, am getting sick of waiting for the lottery and feel like typing something to make myself feel more important. Deal with it. So as of right now, at our current selections of #6 and #12, here are the two players I want, why I want them, and how I think they will make our team better.

#6 -Enes Kanter

I'm gonna be honest, I don't actually think he'll be here. He is, IMO, after Kyrie Irving and kind of Derrick Williams the one sure fire player in this draft. He will succeed, I have absolutely no doubt in that. His offensive polish is off the charts, anytime the majority of scouts say that an 18 year old plays with the mentality of somebody who is in their 30's, that is a player you want. But the reason I want him over Biyombo and others (Knight, etc...I'll explain later) is because he will improve our team more. With a front court of Kanter and Favors we have a player in Kanter who has a mid-range game, low-post game, good passer and good post moves who will have good position on defense but never be a game changer there. We also have Favors who is starting to develop a low-post game, but as of right now does not have a consistent mid-range shot. I personally think that to run an effective offense you need a High-Low post game...Kanter and Favors does that.

Obviously a common complain to Kanter is that we have a similar player in Jefferson. Absolutely true. But....Kanter is a younger and IMO, better offensive player than Jefferson. So my idea is to draft Kanter, develop him under Jefferson for a year and then use Jefferson as a trading chip to get a needed player (most likely PG). Reason I don't want Knight is because well....we don't need a 6'3-6'4 combo guard, we need a point guard. Personally, I think Devin Harris is a better PG than Knight. I'll probably delve into this more in a later post, this is already long as hell and I'm barely half-way through. Reason I am wary of Biyombo (and yes, I know I have spoken highly of him before) is because I just don't think he matches well with Favors. With him and Favors we have two players who pre-dominantly play in the low-post. When Detroit had Ben Wallace they had Rasheed Wallace who could stretch the floor and McDyess who could hit a mid-range shot (If I'm missing players please inform me, my memory is shady). Essentially, I think Kanter improves our team the most out of the likely players at #6.

#12 -Kawhi Leonard

I already know what you're thinking....another defensive minded SF who is limited offensively. Yep, I'm going there. This isn't just about picking the best player, but picking the player that will help our team the most. Important to remember. You NEED players like this to win. He will bring intensity and toughness to a lineup that desperately needs it. I know he often gets compared to Shawn Marion, but IMO, he's a more athletic/weaker version of Ron Artest without the mental issues. He is absolutely not a good shooter right now. But he has a tremendous work ethic, and the potential to improve his shot. He'll obviously never be Kyle Korver/Reggie Miller, but his defense is more important to me than that. I honestly don't think you can win championships without players like this. The reason I want him over Alec Burks is because of Hayward. Burks is a 2, so is Hayward. I think a lineup with Burks at 2 and Hayward at 3 is much weaker than Hayward at 2 and Leonard at 3. Jimmer is Jimmer....I don't want him.

Now just for a minute, picture a lineup of:

PG: Devin Harris
SG: Gordan Hayward
SF: Kawhi Leonard
PF: Derrick Favors
C: Al Jefferson/Enes Kanter

By no means is that a championship or probably even playoff team next year, but damnit, it will be. Just the thought of a team like that excites the hell out of me.

And now is the end of my long winded draft thoughts in which apparently I think I know something about the sport of basketball (I don't, trust me).
If you read this, I'm sorry I wasted your time (I'm actually not).
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I have to say I like Kawhi next to Hayward or in the wing rotation.

But I have to say the Kanter/Jefferson comparision is not very good one. Kanter is a 6'10" power big with quick feet, a polished offensive game and some good rebounding ability. There are major questions about his defensive abilities and if he has the length to play help defense as a big. That sounds a lot like Boozer to me. I like Kanter okay but lets be real about what his impact would be.

On the Biyombo thing- he is a big risk but he fits in just fine next to Favors. Favors has a jumper and a developing face-up/post game. When is it a problem to have two good defensive bigs?
 
Re: Kanter's not Jefferson because he might be a bad defender:

Jefferson isn't a good defender either. He blocks some shots, he does good with his assignment, but his awareness is poor, his general adherence to a scheme is poor, and his rotations are slow and sloppy. Long story short, his team defense is not up to par. There's a reason the Collins twins and Kurt Thomas are still getting work, and it's not because they produce numbers.

I firmly believe that if a player has good fundamentals and is sharp that they can accomplish a lot on either side of the ball. Jefferson probably has a length advantage over Kanter, but I continue to have my doubts about the guy's general and basketball intelligence and I'm hoping Kanter has those attributes if the Jazz draft him because he doesn't have the greatest physical tools for the job besides maybe holding down the fort in the low-post since he's a tank.
 
Hantlers said:
As most of you know, I often change my opinion rapidly. But I'm bored, am getting sick of waiting for the lottery and feel like typing something to make myself feel more important. Deal with it. So as of right now, at our current selections of #6 and #12, here are the two players I want, why I want them, and how I think they will make our team better.

#6 -Enes Kanter

#12 -Kawhi Leonard
Click to expand...

I'd be happy with that draft. The more I hear about Leonard the more I like him. Plus the 12 pick seems like a real crapshoot this year, and he seems as good as any at that pick.
 
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