2012-2013 a wasted season

[The Midnight]

I am one who thinks it was a wasted season. If we don't make the playoffs, then why the hell was it necessary to sign and play mediocre veterans ahead of our young players? We could have as easily missed the playoffs giving Favors and Hayward 30+ regularly and Burks and Kanter 20+ regularly. Had we done that, we'd have a much better idea than we do now whether the C4 can really carry the team, and we would have been able to plan accordingly for next year. As it is, we still don't have an answer to this question, meanwhile, we have to decide whether to resign Jefferson and/or Milsap, plus Hayward and Burks are now soon coming off their rookie contract, and we need to know whether to commit the bigger money to them over the LT. What do we really know going forward to next year, other than Jefferson simply cannot be the key lynchpin for this franchise if we hope to make a deep playoff run? But I honestly doubt whether the Jazz FO and Corbin have even learned this glaringly obvious fact. Had we not wasted last year in the same way, then this might be a less bitter pill to swallow. But now we've wasted two years, and we STILL don't have answers. How can anyone say this season was a success with the Longer term view in mind? Hell, if we don't make the playoffs (which I now doubt we will), then this season wasn't even a success in the ST. The Jazz FO was afraid to take any kind of risk, always trying to hedge it bet, and in the end got bupkis in return. We are swiftly approaching, in my opinion, the worst case scenario for this season--no playoff, no answers, stunted growth, and disillusioned fan base. This whole season has been an anticlimactic disappointment.

We already knew this season was a waste early on. When we saw Corbin's rotations we saw the writing on the wall.

We should have turned this team over to the young guns along time ago. Doesn't mean they all have to start together, but
they should have been the focus. Maybe we'd know if one or more isn't worth going forward with already.
We already know the Sap Big Al Marvin show is pointless.

Guys - as stated above, I believe these last couple of years we've been stuck with Big Al's bloated contract (from trying to appease DWill's demands to keep going for the title). Big Al's contract was simply too difficult to move given the amount owed (remember how we had to use Boozer's trade exception to acquire it and Minny couldn't give it to us fast enough).

So we had to play winning basketball and sell as many tickets as we can so that we can pay for Big Al's contracts. The good news is Big Al's contract will be gone by the end of the year and we can start fresh.

I believe KOC/Lindsey will try to build this new phase from the ground up. With the loaded '14 draft class, I believe we'll play the young guys next season and see where that lands us. Why do I think this will be the case?

1. We were very reluctant to part with our x2 picks this year at the trade deadline. This signals that the FO wants to acquire as many young players as possible for our next phase. This is what the Cavs or the Cats have been doing for the past 2 seasons.

2. Lindsey had been hesitant in giving a straight answer as whether or not we'll re-sign Big Al or Millsap.

3. Simply letting Big Al & Millsap expire is the best way to guarantee we can give our young guys minutes next season. Nothing the FO had done up to this point contradicts this.

In conclusion, I believe they'll let Big Al & Millsap walk. Use the x2 picks on young prospects in '13 pick. Sign gap fillers / vets on short contracts. Extend Favors & Hayward. Let the young core play out next season and get a great draft pick in '14.

Hopefully we'll be fully loaded with young talents as well as experienced talents in Favors, Hayward and Kanter by that time.

So the last x2 years haven't been wasted IMO. We get rid of big Al's contract (last remnant of DWill's era), get Favors & Kanter to gradually progress at their own pace, and get our team ready for the next phase of this franchise.

 

[Revolution 9]

Guys - as stated above, I believe these last couple of years we've been stuck with Big Al's bloated contract (from trying to appease DWill's demands to keep going for the title). Big Al's contract was simply too difficult to move given the amount owed (remember how we had to use Boozer's trade exception to acquire it and Minny couldn't give it to us fast enough).

So we had to play winning basketball and sell as many tickets as we can so that we can pay for Big Al's contracts. The good news is Big Al's contract will be gone by the end of the year and we can start fresh.

I believe KOC/Lindsey will try to build this new phase from the ground up. With the loaded '14 draft class, I believe we'll play the young guys next season and see where that lands us. Why do I think this will be the case?

1. We were very reluctant to part with our x2 picks this year at the trade deadline. This signals that the FO wants to acquire as many young players as possible for our next phase. This is what the Cavs or the Cats have been doing for the past 2 seasons.

2. Lindsey had been hesitant in giving a straight answer as whether or not we'll re-sign Big Al or Millsap.

3. Simply letting Big Al & Millsap expire is the best way to guarantee we can give our young guys minutes next season. Nothing the FO had done up to this point contradicts this.

In conclusion, I believe they'll let Big Al & Millsap walk. Use the x2 picks on young prospects in '13 pick. Sign gap fillers / vets on short contracts. Extend Favors & Hayward. Let the young core play out next season and get a great draft pick in '14.

Hopefully we'll be fully loaded with young talents as well as experienced talents in Favors, Hayward and Kanter by that time.

So the last x2 years haven't been wasted IMO. We get rid of big Al's contract (last remnant of DWill's era), get Favors & Kanter to gradually progress at their own pace, and get our team ready for the next phase of this franchise.

I don't have any beef with KOC or Lindsey. It's mainly with Corbin. Ty isn't a horrible coach, but he makes horrible decisions that I just don't agree with.

KOC's overall been a good GM for us. His trade of Dwill was legendary.

This season had some moments were you started to believe. I think we are looking at reality once again. There will be no playoff run this year.
Next year could be even worse record playoff wise, but it might be more enjoyable watching the young guns start/grow.

 

[The Midnight]

I don't have any beef with KOC or Lindsey. It's mainly with Corbin. Ty isn't a horrible coach, but he makes horrible decisions that I just don't agree with.

KOC's overall been a good GM for us. His trade of Dwill was legendary.

This season had some moments were you started to believe. I think we are looking at reality once again. There will be no playoff run this year.
Next year could be even worse record playoff wise, but it might be more enjoyable watching the young guns start/grow.

Yeah no question. I think if Popovich was coaching this team, we'd be standing at a comfortable 3rd seed easily, behind Spurs & OKC.

I'd reserve my judgement on KOC/Lindsey until this summer. If they re-sign Big Al - I seriously think that half of us will cancel our cable subscription.

 

[carolinajazz]

Someone's a joke. Corbin. Or KOC. I don't know who's to blame the most. Maybe the fans for going to the games.

....so, you won't hold it against me if I choose not to watch the NBA, even the Jazz?

 

[carolinajazz]

I don't have any beef with KOC or Lindsey. It's mainly with Corbin. Ty isn't a horrible coach, but he makes horrible decisions that I just don't agree with.

.....so a coach that makes "horrible decisions" isn't a horrible coach just a.............?????

 

[cowhide]

Again, we were stuck with Big Al. We needed to pay the bills somehow, the best way was to try and win, shoot for the playoffs, etc.

Next year we're free as a bird.

Yea until the front office re-signs Big AL or some other overpaid vet.

 

[The Thriller]

CY has a nice alt.

 

[QuinSnydersHair]

29 teams out of 30 waste the season every year by your guys definition.

I could go on and on but I won't. The easiest way to respond is by simply saying you're a coward.

 

[Crawlnstall]

I feel like its a waste, with all the young talent we have we should be starting at least one or two of them...just to see how they play and if they are good enough to build around or not. But instead we decide to stick with Jefferson, Marvin and Foye....its really sad. Coach has set rotations, doesn't matter who is hot or cold. Glaring weakness at PG and yet our FO decides to stand pat and not even make a trade to try to improve. At ESA the fans get tired of this same crappy play pretty quick.

 

[BabyPeterzz]

We would win more games (Ty's main concern) if we played Al less, and we should play the young guys more and develop them even though we'll lose more games for developments sake and have another crack at the lottery next year.

.....my wife is black.

 

[green]

If you think Al is gone after this year, you are crazy.

Show me one thing the Jazz have done to hint at the fact that they aren't resigning Al. One thing.

 

[Stoked]

I am faily encouraged by the recent development, and increased usage, of Burks, Hayward, Favors and Carroll.

 

[Crawlnstall]

If you think Al is gone after this year, you are crazy.

Show me one thing the Jazz have done to hint at the fact that they aren't resigning Al. One thing.

Sadly I agree 100%. Al will be back sucking up minutes that should be going to Kanter. Slowing down our offense and playing porous defense...can't wait

 

[QuinSnydersHair]

LOL.. then please tell me why rational men such as KOC and Lindsey hadn't given away Millsap & Jefferson at the trade deadline if we could have just won with Favors & Kanter?

Fear, you ****ing tool.

 

[The Midnight]

If you think Al is gone after this year, you are crazy.

Show me one thing the Jazz have done to hint at the fact that they aren't resigning Al. One thing.

Show me one thing that indicates they will re-sign him.

Fact is we won't know until the summer.

 

[The Midnight]

Fear, you ****ing tool.

Well the original contention was that we could have had a winning record with Favors and Kanter alone without either Al or Sap.

If that is truly the case (which it's not), then why not just give both guys away? Why did we have to pay nearly $30m for them this year?

Answer is we do need their help if only to fill in the years and bring new guys along slowly.

 

[The Midnight]

Yea until the front office re-signs Big AL or some other overpaid vet.

When was the last time we resign an overpaid vet?

We only brought in Al to appease Dwill. Let's hold our judgement until this Summer.

 

[nightmare3983]

if you call the development of the kids this year a waste,

i suspect you maybe unhappy being stuck in the role you're in IRL, and probably a waste

the knicks of the 00's know how to waste seasons, this is the opposite of that. we are preparing for war. if the lakers miss the playoffs that will be a waste, we have kids making marked improvement...

The Knicks wasted the better part of a decade.

 

[green]

LOL.. sorry if I hadn't made it clear.

I think my point is from an ownership stand point - as long as we're raking in the $ selling playoffs hope, then we're doing well. Greg may sit at the court side every game. But what he really cares about is the bottom line.

If it's the difference between breaking even and Favors/Kanter getting minutes, then Fans will choose the minutes, but Greg (and KOC, and Ty, by default) would choose breaking even.

Here is my big issue with this argument:

1 - The Jazz have had 25 years of "profitable" playoff basketball. They have made hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of MILLIONS of dollars off the Jazz (that is not an exaggeration. Larry bought the Jazz for 14 million. It's now worth over three hundred million).

2 - We had the lockout and came away with one fix: the owners are making money hand over fist. Why was it that the NBA couldn't sell NO before the new CBA, and since that CBA teams are changing owners very quickly? Because with revenue sharing and the new %'s, the owners are making a lot of money now. An NBA franchise is a good investment now.

The Millers have made their money. They are continuing to make their money.

The money excuse is just a way to get us to shut up, but when you look into it, it is not a valid excuse.

This is what Bill Simmons said on the subject. He is talking about OKC and Harden, but a lot of what he says applies to the Jazz:

Presti knows that. So does Harden. And that's made their October dance particularly fascinating. Presti's public rhetoric has been particularly pointed: We love James, we'd love to bring him back, but we're a small-market team and it would be really hard for us to pay the luxury tax. Hmmmmmm. They're already paying Durant and Westbrook "max" money, and they're already shelling out $12 million a year for Serge Ibaka. Paying Harden means paying the tax. Period. Especially when those Durant/Westbrook deals start bumping up — for the 2014-15 season, one year after the tax penalties become more prohibitive, they're going to be making $35.7 million combined.3 Throw in Ibaka's salary ($12.25 million) and Harden's hypothetical max deal ($14.3 million) and suddenly we just crept over $62 million for four guys.

Given Oklahoma City's economics, they'd be losing eight figures a year (allegedly) to keep their best four players. And really, even if Harden takes a little less — say, $57 million instead of $64 million — that doesn't really help the Thunder. Or so they say. Thanks to the latest labor agreement, they're arguing publicly that no small-market team can pay three max contract guys (in this case: Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook and Harden) AND avoid the prohibitive luxury-tax penalties AND field a good enough supporting cast. Although this seems like a good time to mention that Oklahoma City …

1. Sold out the past four seasons.
2. Fielded a popular/marketable/likable contender for the past three years.
3. Hosted 19 playoff games over the past two seasons (free money).
4. Didn't pay the luxury tax in any of the last four years.
5. Will remain under the tax if they don't extend Harden until next summer.
6. Wouldn't be the first "small market" team to pay the luxury tax. Check out this splendid piece of "Who paid the luxury tax since 2002?" research from Sham Sports — you'll notice Sacramento (2003-04: $30 million), San Antonio (2009: $8.8 million), Minnesota (2004: $17.6 million) and Cleveland (2008-10: $43.1 million) on there.

So for the Thunder to say, Yeah, we can't pay the tax, we're a small-market team, that would be financial suicide — it's not totally genuine. Businesses have ebbs and flows. You can't complain about losing a reasonable amount of money for the next few years (if that's even true — more on that in a second) after raking in profits for five straight years. Nobody feels bad for you, Billionaire Dudes Who Hit The Jackpot With Durant, Hijacked The Sonics From Seattle And Have Been Raking In Money In OKC Ever Since. Seriously. Can it already.

https://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8486795/the-harden-dilemma

 

[green]

Show me one thing that indicates they will re-sign him.

Fact is we won't know until the summer.

The minutes he plays, the shots he takes, the lack of defensvie accountability, the way Locke and the other Jazz owned media (1280 the zone) tell us how great Al is and how Favors and Kanter aren't there yet, the way Bolerjack goes on and on about how much the Jazz need Al, the fact that they didn't trade him, etc, etc, etc.