green
Well-Known Member
The fact that they start players that will pass the ball to Al, the fact that they don't sit Al when others behind him are clearly playing better, the fact that all the coaches publicly back him...
2012-2013 a wasted season
- Thread starter The Thriller
- Start date
The fact that they start players that will pass the ball to Al, the fact that they don't sit Al when others behind him are clearly playing better, the fact that all the coaches publicly back him...
Thee Jazz Fan
Well-Known Member
MoreFeasts
Member
read half the thread.
Are pointgod and hotnick on the Jazz staff?
Are pointgod and hotnick on the Jazz staff?
QuinSnydersHair
Well-Known Member
They're always on someone's staff.
Those years where we paid DWill, Boozer, AK and Okur only to go out in the 1st or 2nd round of the playoffs....I guess those were wasted years too?
From my point of view, I can see why it would seem a bit pointless to even make the playoffs if we don't really have a chance and if 4/5 of our starting line-up won't be with the team next year, notwithstanding the fact that the other 1/5 we wish weren't with the team. Basically, Al and Sap hug each other again, then leave through free agency. Every sports franchise deals with this though. If the Jazz were the Yankees or the Lakers, I could see why fans' expectations would be high, but lets look at the recent years' performance:
last year - swept in the 1st round
2 yrs ago - wheels fell off, missed the playoffs
3 yrs ago - lost in the 2nd round after beating Denver
4 yrs ago - DWill and Boozer miss time, we get the 8th seed, lose in the 1st round
5 yrs ago - lost in the 2nd round (because Brewer and AK can't shoot)
6 yrs ago - snuck into the WCF, but really should have gone out in the 2nd round
Most sports fans just kick back, relax and enjoy the game even if they don't win much.
From my point of view, I can see why it would seem a bit pointless to even make the playoffs if we don't really have a chance and if 4/5 of our starting line-up won't be with the team next year, notwithstanding the fact that the other 1/5 we wish weren't with the team. Basically, Al and Sap hug each other again, then leave through free agency. Every sports franchise deals with this though. If the Jazz were the Yankees or the Lakers, I could see why fans' expectations would be high, but lets look at the recent years' performance:
last year - swept in the 1st round
2 yrs ago - wheels fell off, missed the playoffs
3 yrs ago - lost in the 2nd round after beating Denver
4 yrs ago - DWill and Boozer miss time, we get the 8th seed, lose in the 1st round
5 yrs ago - lost in the 2nd round (because Brewer and AK can't shoot)
6 yrs ago - snuck into the WCF, but really should have gone out in the 2nd round
Most sports fans just kick back, relax and enjoy the game even if they don't win much.
These are all Ty's coaching decisions.
But it's KOC and Lindsey who are the ones who's making the decision as to whether or not to re-sign him.
My view is :
- with the kind of money he'll get offered in the open market - bigs are at a premium not all teams have 2 future bigs like us
- the fact that we went nowhere this year even though it's al contract year
- Al still struggles defensively
- new CBA they need to be prudent
I sincerely think they'll let him walk. So I'm willing to wait to find out in Summer and reserve judgement.
Are you?
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
1967-1972
Truly "wasted" years
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
SAdly, I think you're right.
Unfortunately, Favors and Kanter might be making the decision for the Jazz. Favors can't play more than 20 mins without getting into foul trouble. And Kanter has as many bad games as good ones.
If the Jazz were interested in re-signing Al, they would have met with his agent and started hammering out a deal to extend him. There would be news about how well the negotiations are going. There hasn't been anything like that, and the Jazz haven't made him any offer that I'm aware of. If he hits free agency, several teams will put offers on the table, and the Jazz will have to compete with those.
What you're essentially highlighting is what's known as "the Greg Miller era" or "the Greg Miller effect". Larry has always run a great club. Though there's always talk of him being frugal, it wasn't simply frugality. It was frugality coupled with intelligence, with a lot of passion sprinkled in. We've always preached consistency, but what's translated since Larry stepping away is a poor understanding of those principles and thinking that frugality and consistency alone were the independent variables to our franchise's long history of success.
After Stockton and Malone left, we made a swift rebuild. Our team was flawed, but we were good. We still had a lot of potential and we were, despite how it's painted and how it collapsed, contenders (referring to our WCF appearance and when we lost to LA the first time). There were a few minor adjustments in there, such as getting Korver (but this was a move made after we had to get rid of Giricek). Anyhow, it was apparent after the SAS series that it was time to move on from AK, it's just unfortunate we kept dragging it out for another 3 or so years. Then, after our first defeat at the hands of LA, it was apparent that it was time to move on from Boozer, but again we dragged that out another two years. This was when Greg transitioned in. I stated numerous times that Greg and KOC were passively driving the team into rebuilding (unintentionally). I wasn't crazy about getting Al, but it was a worthy experiment. The whole time with Boozer many suggested we just run with Millsap but of course conventional wisdom was "lol you don't just get rid of your best player." Ironically, we see the same thing repeating itself this year. Obviously we see in hindsight that we would have been just fine sans Boozer with Millsap starting.
The point I return to is that the recent past your suggesting in some ways relates to now, but in other ways certainly doesn't. For those first few years with Williams/Boozer/Okur we really were on the upswing. You can't even say we have anything close to that. I'm afraid we think that Sloan was good with consistency and that somehow that translates into being the only variable separating Corbin from being Sloanlike is "patience" and "consistency" (two things of which, coincidentally, we're not giving our young guys).
The past two years have been failures precisely because nearly anyone knows we're not even contenders for winning a couple games in a series, but yet the same line spun to the media is that "hey, make the playoffs and anything can happen". We're keeping the guys on the bench, a major sacrifice (despite how we spin how great the development is going), so that we "maybe" could win a few post-season games and generate a little excitement? There's no clear benefit in that. Imagine how bad you think we'll be next year without the vets. Now imagine how much better we'd be if during these past two years the young guys were actually getting consistent minutes? Now, since that future is not a possibility, this summer we'll be scrambling to fill the gap between those two possibilities because the young guys "aren't ready" (primarily because they haven't been given any playing time). So, again, what is more beneficial? Was it beneficial to not give playing time to Favors and Hayward after the Deron trade? Was it beneficial to give minutes to Jefferson, Howard, Bell, Miles, et. al. so that we could get swept by the Spurs? Has it been beneficial to play Foye, Watson and Tinsley all this time while Burks racked up DNP after DNP? Has it been beneficial to play Williams and not move Millsap to more minutes at SF? How much worse off are we for next season because of these decisions? Oh, that's right. Not much worse off, because we'll simply go out a sign some other rent-a-vets that will be able to bring the experience that the young guys don't have so that we don't have to feel the effect as much next season. Grand idea.
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This.
Exactly. There is no sane / rational reason to complete with other teams for his service in the FA.
To people saying the Jazz haven't done anything to indicate they won't re-sign Al, let's look back to Boozer's last year here. What did the Jazz to do indicate they weren't going to re-sign him? He played the same role/minutes as the rest of his time here. That didn't mean they were going to re-sign him.
The Jazz met with Boozer and Boozer's agent indicating they weren't going to re-sign him. Boozer asked to be traded. The Jazz ultimately facilitated a sign-and-trade with the Bulls at the end of the year. This was highly publicized, and Boozer even went on a radio-interview tour to court the Bulls and other teams.
It's still possible that the Jazz will make an offer to Jefferson, but it's unlikely. Al can get big money to be someone else's 2nd option.
Edit: I misread your post's double-negative.
Teams that miss out on Dwight and Josh Smith will probably go after Jefferson, since it's safer than giving money to Bynum.
Yes. Agree with both.
If anything the FO might want to avoid the Boozer shenanigan this time around - so simply let Jefferson be had at the FA and simply don't offer anything to match. Of course if we can get him real cheap like $8-$9m region, we'll probably bring him back. But I don't see why another team lacking low post scoring won't offer anything less than $12m for big Al as a 2nd scoring option.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
I think it will go considerably higher than that, but you never know.
mellow
Well-Known Member
My biggest concern is Favors & Kanter. Bigs in the league develop slowly, but they need playing time not watching time.
Darko was 19, athletic and promising.....he watched for 3 years and was a bust. I will be very sad if jazz wasted two years with Kanter and Favors.
To add insult to injury they both credit Al for taking them under wing and teaching tutoring them. If they learn up and unders, wheezies, and plodding and I have to watch that for 7 more years--I will be disappointed.
Darko was 19, athletic and promising.....he watched for 3 years and was a bust. I will be very sad if jazz wasted two years with Kanter and Favors.
To add insult to injury they both credit Al for taking them under wing and teaching tutoring them. If they learn up and unders, wheezies, and plodding and I have to watch that for 7 more years--I will be disappointed.
jimmy eat jazz
Well-Known Member
I think Hotnick raises a number of good points. There's a good chance he is right about what the FO is thinking/doing. I also tend to think FO won't resign Jefferson. I fear they will, but if forced to bet, I'd bet against it.
This doesn't take away, however, from my view that this season and last have been largely wasted seasons. I think the FO and Corbin blew it and wasted two seasons for developing the youth. We could have had two low seed or no playoff seasons, while developing the youth, so that next season we'd be primed to make the jump. Instead, if they do now finally turn the keys over to the youth, we'll likely have to endure a couple more seasons of low seed or no playoffs before they make the jump. So what could have possibly been a 2 year process, has now become possibly a 4 year process. In addition, we need to make decisions about extended Hayward and Favors, when we don't yet have a good idea what they can really do together when given the chance. As a long time Jazz fan, the only season I've enjoyed less than this one was D-Will's rookie year when we won 20 some odd games.
Wasteful, wasteful loss of opportunity these last two years.
OH thank the LORD!! Finally someone sees the light!!
As stated above, (and this proves that I'm not a Jazz employee) - if we have had Popovich instead of Ty - with the team that we had, I seriously think that we'd be sitting comfortably at the 3rd spot behind the Spurs and OKC.
But unfortunately we have Ty. His late game decision making is ****. His rotation is ****. Offense is unimaginative.
Ty, more than any other reasons, is the reason we've wasted the last 2 years.
But I wonder if we can put all this blame on Ty when it was Greg/KOC who hired him in the first place?
green
Well-Known Member
For a lot of your posts, I want so badly for you to be right, but fear you will be wrong.
I do agree 100% with this post.