By the way, I was being funny (a bit) with Bodhi in my last few, though all accurate, but I agree with everything you're saying .. 100%.
2013 free agency a let down?
- Thread starter Bodhi
- Start date
By the way, I was being funny (a bit) with Bodhi in my last few, though all accurate, but I agree with everything you're saying .. 100%.
framer
Well-Known Member
And, as others have mentioned, for every team that blows thair capspace in 2013, there will be less teams to mess with our free agents. I keep having the suspicion that 2014 will be tight based upon when the new CBA was inked. That will be the last of the old rookie contracts, and a good time to have our guys as RFAs. It is the same time that the cap starts to really bite the big spenders.
You're right, man. What was I thinking? Paying your best player - who can play with anybody - 66% of the max is lunacy, especially since the Jazz effectively have to find $30-something million to spend in a year. It's probably best to sign Kwame Brown for $7 million, or find some Travis Outlaws.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Agree. While other owners and GM's have been spending like drunken sailors, KOC has been holding tight to his plan.
If he wants to be a player next season in FA, then he'll probably want to hold off on re-signing Millsap. They could have a gentleman's agreement to sign Paul after everything else is doen. That way he can use the full cap to fill the roster and then exceed the cap to retain Paul.
freakazoid
Well-Known Member
I remember people on this board not wanting to match Portland's offer the first time around, and some people claiming he wasn't worth the MLE. Pretty funny stuff. Things have changed a bit with the new CBA, but I don't think Utah would bat an eye at extending Sap at 10 per. If anything, I kinda doubt Sap himself will sign for that, when he may very well be able to get more. And if that ends up being the case, then I do agree with Glassmo and others that KOC needs to get as much trade value as they can out of him.
spycam1
Well-Known Member
This.
spycam1
Well-Known Member
Overall, it seems that we do have lots of options coming our way, whether it be to trade Al/Millsap, keep our other vets or re-sign them, the GS pick, what we choose to do with our 2013 cap space. And with a savvy GM like KOC, I have confidence we'll come out better equipped than we are now. That--combined with the anticipated development of the four young guys--I think we just might put together a contender in three years or so.
Hard to disagree with that in a vacuum, but I feel like you need to carry over something from before The Four and Millsap fits in perfectly as a hybrid 4. Maybe you extend/re-sign him at bigger money on a 3-year deal since the salary picture shouldn't start getting real until Kanter and Burks come up. Or a two-year deal, depending on how much the Williams brothers end up being a part of The Plan and how much they're getting paid.
vslice02
Well-Known Member
If the Jazz could somehow lock Millsap into a 4-year extension w/flat $10mil salaries - sure that cuts into you cap space but it doesn't handcuff your flexibility. A 4-year extenson would span Millsap's career from ages 28-31 - which is directly in his prime, Millsap has shown that each season he continues to improve a facet of his game, and (knock on wood) he's been incredibly durable throughout his career (both college and nba). $10 million for a productive PF with those characteristics - that's a player that if - worst-case scenario gets in the way of Favors/Kanter's development - is someone you could move w/out too much difficulty and still get something of value in return.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Maybe Millsap would be more willing to sign an extension if it were structured like the current one. Pay him a big signing bonus, but also set it up as a declining contract. I know there are rules re: how much contracts can decrease per year, but every bit counts as the Young-4 come up for their non-rookie contracts.
vslice02
Well-Known Member
Yeah...I don't think a big initial signing bonus is too feasible with a Millsap extension because a team has to be under the salary cap in order to allocate signing bonus money to the front of a contract when an extension is signed (otherwise it's pro-rated throughout the duration of the contract).
You could scale the salaries slightly but personally I don't have a significant fear of resigning ALL of the core-4. Not only are the chances of all four becoming above-average pros small - the really smart teams target 2, maybe 3 players they want to build around and then everyone else becomes expendable - so you see an OKC shipping off a Jeff Green prior to his free agency to target a position of need and San Antonio trading a George Hill 1-year before he's due an extension and getting a promising young player Kahwi Leonard who is on a scaled rookie contract. If the Jazz find themselves in a position where it appears Favors, Hayward, Kanter and Burks will be highly coveted - not only would that be a great position to be in - there are ways to maximize their value w/out of resigning all 4 to big money extensions.
green
Well-Known Member
All this talk of Favors/Hayward/Burks possibly becoming Utah's guy is EXACTLY why Jefferson needs to be off this team YESTERDAY.
The worst thing the Jazz could do is overpay one of those guys because we didn't have a chance to see what they could do. It would be much better to trade Jefferson now (and his 20 and 10) and see what Hayward/Favors/Burks can do. Jefferson negatively effects all three of those guys on offense. Then, if they bomb, we still have cap space, and if they blow up, we get them on the cheap a year or two before we sign them to big deals.
The worst thing the Jazz could do is keep Al, have Favors/Burks/Hayward look promising, sign them to big deals to have them go AK on us. This should have been done last year.
The worst thing the Jazz could do is overpay one of those guys because we didn't have a chance to see what they could do. It would be much better to trade Jefferson now (and his 20 and 10) and see what Hayward/Favors/Burks can do. Jefferson negatively effects all three of those guys on offense. Then, if they bomb, we still have cap space, and if they blow up, we get them on the cheap a year or two before we sign them to big deals.
The worst thing the Jazz could do is keep Al, have Favors/Burks/Hayward look promising, sign them to big deals to have them go AK on us. This should have been done last year.
did you watch him play last playoffs? "Best player" isn't someone who disappears when the going gets tough. If he is really our best player this year then making the playoffs as an 8th seed would be our ceiling. I hope that is'nt the case. But I don't think he was even our best player last year in the first place. He looked like the best player in stretches at best.While in other stretches we had other players looking like the best. Also the offense was run more through Big Al, and not through your "best player"
Sap is backup PF on a contending team. If we had a Lebron James starting, then Millsap could be your Haslem. But we don't. And you don't pay a guy that much to be a role player unless you are Mark Cuban or something. If 2 of the young players flounder, yes, Millsap becomes more important. But if the big men show improvement then he should be trade bait. If Jazz make re-signing Millsap as their biggest priority then they are setting the bar lower. Maybe then they are just content to be a fringe playoff team like they were anyways. Millsap is a nice player and all that, but lets not overrate his abilities.
framer
Well-Known Member
This.
Milsap at 10 or 11 million on a long term contract is a tremendous deal and we should sign that immediately if we can. It provides both value and options. The bad news is that I would suspect that he would want a trade kicker and assurances that Al is being shipped which will shrink our options. If Sap feels like the contract is an open invitation for trade bait, he would be better off just signing with his preferred team that isn't the Jazz. I suspect he will want 12 to 13 million, and I also suspect someone will give it to him.
It is when the entire team fails to do anything with exception to Favors. And I never said Millsap needed to be a featured piece, but he's been forced to become that and has done a damn good job. I don't know why people so undervalue the ability of a player to play off and with other players, especially watching the Big Al debacle unfold in front of their faces.
Not everyone can be stars, but Millsap's been pretty close to that when no one else would or could step up. That's now two years running, and he'd be an even better piece if he could play off of someone and play in a real offense again.
Millsap's contract is dependent on so many factors. Although, he's the guy you keep, so you make it happen.
Our 2013 flexibility will, as stated before, allow the Jazz to keep the young pieces in place no matter what happens in FA, and potentially pick up another solid complimentary piece. We're not going to make a blockbuster signing, unless it involves a sing-and-trade with one of the 4.
The Jazz will re-up Hayward, Favors, and Millsap. Then pick up a decent FA to help make the next jump.
Our splash will be keeping all the young dudes and adding another solid player.
/blockbusterutahsplashinyourfaceandback
Our 2013 flexibility will, as stated before, allow the Jazz to keep the young pieces in place no matter what happens in FA, and potentially pick up another solid complimentary piece. We're not going to make a blockbuster signing, unless it involves a sing-and-trade with one of the 4.
The Jazz will re-up Hayward, Favors, and Millsap. Then pick up a decent FA to help make the next jump.
Our splash will be keeping all the young dudes and adding another solid player.
/blockbusterutahsplashinyourfaceandback
Really? You might hate Al but the fact is that he did average 18 and 9 on 53% shooting in the playoffs. That is not "failing to do anything". Millsap was close to a bust on both ends of the floor. 12ppg on 37% shooting? Meh, we can get that from Kanter or Marvin or someone else in a couple of years. And this is not a one-off thing with Millsap. Earlier against the Lakers he was abused by Odom in the playoffs every year. For all the bashing Booz took, without him taking the offensive load Jazz do not have even the moderate success they did have.
For all your Big Al bashing(and I admite he does have flaws) he improved last season and was more consistent than Millsap who will have stretches during the season where he just disappears. Al was our offense night in and night out.You cant call a guy who averaged almost 20 and 10 last season as a debacle. Thats laughably biased. Especially considering that he had to make quite a few adjustments and play under a new coach without the benefit of a camp. Sure,he has some of the flaws which Booz did, but minus Boozer's attitude and nonchalant demeanor. He might not be needed 3 years from now, but he his helping the Jazz win games NOW. He is the only consistent low post scorer that we have now and the Jazz need that because they dont exactly have stud wings like Lebron or Wade or Harden.
He's been playing off of someone his whole life. Earlier he played off of Deron and Booz and Okur and now he is playing off of Al, Hayward and others. In other words he has been enjoying the fact that he has never been the focal point of opposing team's defenses. And yet he disappears in stretches during the season and comes up short in the playoffs consistently.
Look, he is a nice role player to have and has a good attitude. He has been a feel good story for the Jazz. But lets not treat him like as if he is indispensable or that he has this magical basketball skills which would be demonstrated if only he had better players around him. Thats nonsense. He has limited skill sets(apart from his physical limitations) and for all his work ethic, he'll be a good 6th man to have AT BEST. If you are going to make him your second option then you are aiming to be a middling fringe playoff team and nothing more.
If it were only possible, I'd trade Millsap for Iguodola in a heartbeat.
A lineup of Al, Iguodola,Marvin,Favors,Mo and a bench of Hayward, Kanter,Tinsley, Evans,Burks would be pretty good.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
It's not about a signing bonus, but a frontloaded deal with decreasing salaries. If the Jazz were going to extend Sap, the optimal solution would be a frontloaded deal that kills our MAX contract possibilities for 13 (assuming Marvin's inevitable opt in.) But that's trickier than just offering it. While financially it's always better for a player to get a frontloaded deal, it also means the player accepts he's trade bait with each advancing year. And in Sap's case, there's a high chance a team 2 years down the road would be trading for him as a backup.
My gut feeling with Sap is he wants a deal that effectively cements him as a starter. So he'll want the raises. As a result, resigning him is probably contingent on accepting salaries in years 3 and 4 of higher than 10 which is where it gets iffy.
My gut feeling with Sap is he wants a deal that effectively cements him as a starter. So he'll want the raises. As a result, resigning him is probably contingent on accepting salaries in years 3 and 4 of higher than 10 which is where it gets iffy.