Thee Jazz Fan
Well-Known Member
You mean started a player or two from his bench?
2020 All-Time Draft - Round 1: Beer vs Thee jazz fan
- Thread starter spycam1
- Start date
Yes, Skywalker would be much better starting at SG or even Penny. Penny wasnt a great 3 point shooter but he hit open shots and his playmaking was amazing. Thompson could shoot but wasnt a big part of his game or the game in general then.
Lebron has to play at SF. Putting him at PF in his prime is a bad decision.
Steve Nash
Carmelo Anthony
Lebron James
Charles Barkley
Dwight Howard
Penny Hardaway
David Thompson
Gilbert Arenas
Marcus Camby
David Benoit
Team Thee jazz fan
Ben Wallace // Bill Laimbeer
Kevin Garnett // Bobby Jones
Scottie Pippen // Alex English
Ray Allen // Manu Ginobili
Isaiah Thomas // Jrue Holiday
Nash - Isaiah: This is fairly even maybe a slight advantage to Isaiah but Nash is a better fit for Beer
Skywalker - Ray Allen: At their peak this is fairly even. Allen is the better shooter but Skywalker has advantages as well.
Lebron - Pipper: Obviously this is Lebron
Barkley - KG: This is advantage Barkley but its close.
Howard - Ben Wallace: This is kind of close but still advantage Howard.
Bench is a big advantage for Thee but that is less important. Beer would have to tighten up his line up, but that is expected anyways.
So really with that lineup there is almost no starting advantage for thee. But with the lineup posted it gives thee some advantages and an awkward lineup that struggles to work together for Beer.
I think Beer was too worried about a shooter next to Lebron at SG. Lebron needs some shooters around him but does not need that much. Also Lebron really likes Melo especially in his prime so it would be an okay fit if he came off the bench.
Carmelo Anthony
Lebron James
Charles Barkley
Dwight Howard
Penny Hardaway
David Thompson
Gilbert Arenas
Marcus Camby
David Benoit
Team Thee jazz fan
Ben Wallace // Bill Laimbeer
Kevin Garnett // Bobby Jones
Scottie Pippen // Alex English
Ray Allen // Manu Ginobili
Isaiah Thomas // Jrue Holiday
Nash - Isaiah: This is fairly even maybe a slight advantage to Isaiah but Nash is a better fit for Beer
Skywalker - Ray Allen: At their peak this is fairly even. Allen is the better shooter but Skywalker has advantages as well.
Lebron - Pipper: Obviously this is Lebron
Barkley - KG: This is advantage Barkley but its close.
Howard - Ben Wallace: This is kind of close but still advantage Howard.
Bench is a big advantage for Thee but that is less important. Beer would have to tighten up his line up, but that is expected anyways.
So really with that lineup there is almost no starting advantage for thee. But with the lineup posted it gives thee some advantages and an awkward lineup that struggles to work together for Beer.
I think Beer was too worried about a shooter next to Lebron at SG. Lebron needs some shooters around him but does not need that much. Also Lebron really likes Melo especially in his prime so it would be an okay fit if he came off the bench.
No I am thinking of changing my vote. I assume Beers team would adjust its minutes to make it work. Sub out someone in the starting lineup soon and bring in a SG off the bench. Even Prime Agent 0 could come in soon. He could shoot well and play next to Nash.
Thee Jazz Fan
Well-Known Member
Well geez. Two can play this game.
Wallace - Howard. Howard is the better offensive player and a great defender from his Orlando days, but Wallace had another gear and nastiness to look Howard in the eye and withstand him just like he did Shaq. Advantage Wallace.
Barkley - KG. I beg to differ. KG all the way. The only time the lowly wolves org was any good was when KG was there he carried that horrible excuse of a franchise. His length, athleticism and defense would be too much. Advantage KG.
LBJ - Pippen. Hey, it’s LBJ, but I will say Pippen was a masterful defender, as elite as they come, LBJ wins the matchup, but Pippen makes him work for everything. LBJ MAY NOT BE AS AFFECTIVE AS USUAL.
Skywalker - Ray Allen. People forget just how great Allen was, he wasn’t just a shooter. He had great handles and finish inside. Advantage Allen.
Isaha Thomas - Nash. Great playmaking pg’s with different games. Thomas was the better scorer and 10 times the defender. Advantage Thomas.
My bench is also much better. If I needed to I can give Jrue a few more mins to really lock down Nash. I can clog the lane to help Pippen and Wallace, no open shots. My defense is too suffocating.
I win just like Wallace’s pistons vs the Lakers in 04. Lakers had the two or three best players in that series too.
Fair enough. Because the only facts we have is what your eye test tells you so I am not privy to that information.
Where is your big advantage at? An advantage over how big of an advantage Lebron is? The bench is your main advantage but thats not that big since no one plays 10 players in playoffs its just 8 or so.
"Wallace - Howard. Howard is the better offensive player and a great defender from his Orlando days, but Wallace had another gear and nastiness to look Howard in the eye and withstand him just like he did Shaq. Advantage Wallace. "
Also lol at this. They are about the same defensively like you said and Howard is a better offensive player but advantage Wallace because he had a look in his eye! I like that one.
You're right your team has that look like they want it. Are they hungry enough though?
Curious what other think.
Who is better Charles Barkley or KG?
For me its Barkley and that is pretty easy for me. But I do think its fairly close. Switch eras do you think KG is just as good going up against the 90's bigs and facing off against those guys? Do you think Barkleys game would translate to more modern game?
Who is better Charles Barkley or KG?
For me its Barkley and that is pretty easy for me. But I do think its fairly close. Switch eras do you think KG is just as good going up against the 90's bigs and facing off against those guys? Do you think Barkleys game would translate to more modern game?
Thee Jazz Fan
Well-Known Member
Barkley was more of a post player in his 76ers days and more of a jump shooter inside out game in Phoenix. He made a more concerted effort to shoot threes in Phoenix and Houston, but was never a consistent three shooter. He was more suited for 90’s ball in his Philly days, and a bit better suited for now later in his career. I think.
I’ve always considered KG the 4th best 4 if we are calling Duncan a 4 and Barkley 5th. I’m not sure how Barkley would handle KG’s length and athleticism while being an elite defender. I always felt KG was a better shooter too even though he didn’t shoot threes. I think he would’ve been at least as good as Barkley at shooting threes. He shot a lot out to 20ft with plenty of success. Let’s also not forget in his Minnesota days he could guard most 3’s. He even played on the wing his first 2-3 years, I forget.
We are not to far off then. You and I think it's very close. I don't think it's a big advantage either way regardless. They both have strengths that are different they would use. Plenty of length was thrown at Barkley that he handled pretty well.
Thee Jazz Fan
Well-Known Member
My biggest advantage is team defense. It’s far and away better. IMO.
Thee Jazz Fan
Well-Known Member
Another big advantage is I don’t have Melo. Lol
I dislike Melo and I know he loses you votes in these things so I wouldn't draft him. But prime Melo was really good and showed he could play very well with other stars in the Olympics. He was even decent at defense. But he is too disliked and most people are thinking of the more recent version of him.
Paul woulda been the right move. Vastly superior player to Isiah.
Miggs
Well-Known Member
Garnett.
fishonjazz
Well-Known Member
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checkbookdoc
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I think both of them would translate to any time.
Defense: KG>Chuck
KG was a great defender and good enough to cover-up for teammates on that side. On the other hand, Sir Charles during his peak years is generally thought of as an average defender, even though his teams were always better when he was on the floor. Chuck struggled a bit in the post, but had VERY quick feet and crazy long arms so he could stay in-front of players, contest shots, and ended possessions with elite rebounding ("Round Mound of Rebound" is one of the greatest names ever). I think of Barkley as a neutral on defense, if surrounded with bad defenders the team will be bad, if surrounded with elite defenders the team will be elite.
Offense:Barkley>KG
IMO Barkley was a better overall offensive player, but that doesn't mean he was better than KG at everything.
The most obvious advantage was fast break. Barkley is on of the best transition scorers ever, and his rebounding led to a lot of fast breaks (he could rebound and go, or outlet and go).
Barkley was a more natural scorer and better at forcing the issue. If you needed a basket, he could get the ball and make something happen.
KG was a better passer.
KG was a better mid-range shooter.
Barkley was a much better floor spacer because he had way more gravity and also was a willing (if bad) 3 pt shooter. KG flat out refused to do so (even though he played in the 3 pt era). Think Giannis vs Ben Simmons.
Overall: Barkley vs Garnett depends on team need and style of play. If I was looking for a #1 offensive player, I would take Barkley. If I needed a defensive anchor and top tier secondary offensive player I would take KG. To demonstrate, let's pretend we could take away a player from top teams and decide if the team would be better replacing them with Charles or KG:
Lakers w/out LeBron: I would take Sir Charles
Lakers w/out AD: I would take KG
Jazz w/out Gobert: I would take KG
Jazz w/out Mitchell: I would take Barkley
Bucks w/out Giannis: I would take Barkley
Houston w/out Harden: I would take Barkley
Clippers w/out Kawhi: I would probably take Barkley
Clippers w/out PG: I would take KG
Beer
Well-Known Member
My reasoning for starting Melo was Penny is not a shooter, or wasn't in the early 90's when pretty much no one was a shooter, plus I wanted some playmaking off the bench. I had scoring with Gil and Skywalker but no one I'd be comfortable running the offense through and getting others involved. I know everyone loves to hate Melo but he's a sure fire hall of famer and one of the great scoreres of our generation, plus I got him in one of the very last rounds and he would be my 4th option. He's got to be the best 4th option out there.
I think my team is just full of good basketball players outside of Dwight Howard who was so dominant physically that he didn't need to be good at basketball. Chuck was a great playmaker that no one seems to remember. Dude was averaging 5-6 apg during his prime. Then Nash and Lebron 2 all time great playmakers. Melo and Dwight just need to fill the roles they are assigned.
I honestly think Ray Allen is being vastly overrated in this. I like him a lot but people are acting like he is the make or break key for a team. I'm not seeing it.
Beer
Well-Known Member
I'm losing votes because people are forgetting how good Melo, Dwight, Barkley were in their primes. The fact that Thee is even pretending Ben Wallace could hang with prime Dwight Howard is laughable. Even idiotic. Ben Wallace was nice but he was the 3rd or 4th best player on those Pistons teams. Dwight carried a very mediocre Orlando team to the finals. Melo was not the fat lazy chucker people are remembering. He was a beast in the post, a very good athlete, an all time great scorer. People are voting with their hearts and not logically.
My bench is meh, I get it. Penny only had a few good years before injuries set in, Skywalker got into crack killing his surefire hall of fame chances, Gil had a few really bad years at the end of his career that overshadow how perfect he was for the modern game. He was the original 3's, layups, and free throws player. Dude was a lights out scorer for 4 or so years. Camby is an all time great rim protector. And David Benoit is GOAT.
And it’s not close. He’s in the same tier of Barkley offensively but an all-time great on defense and was committed to winning every day of the year. You cannot make the latter claim for Barkley.