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2024-2025 Tank Race

idiot said:
It's an interesting dilemma.

About half-way through the season and clearly now in the 2nd spot (esp. in the all-important # of wins). New Orleans and Toronto playing better now. Charlotte was as well (though the Miller injury may hurt there). Portland has probably put too much space between them and us for them to be a threat to us anymore. We have a hard remaining schedule , while at least some of our "rivals" will have much easier ones. We've managed to do all this without trades. Arguably, the FO and coaching decisions have masterfully managed the tank -- giving both vets and youngsters plenty of time to improve/showcase their games. There's probably nothing we can do to get to the worst record in the league. So trades aren't going to improve our draft probabilities.

If we manage to get Flagg, it's possible that we may decide to keep some of the vets and figure out how to win. Even without Flagg, the current vets would give us a lot more optionality in the offseason.

On the other hand, we've been managing to lose by the skin of our teeth at times lately. Our overall point differential is stronger than our record reflects. A few unexpected wins could put our current position in peril.
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that's the point. I think with smart management, we do not have to trade much to finish bottom 2. Clarkson, Collins if we find suitors may be enough. Keeping Lauri, Sexton, Kessler and the young's. And if we are lucky at the balls and get Flagg, then we can start to get better.
 
idiot said:
It's an interesting dilemma.

About half-way through the season and clearly now in the 2nd spot (esp. in the all-important # of wins). New Orleans and Toronto playing better now. Charlotte was as well (though the Miller injury may hurt there). Portland has probably put too much space between them and us for them to be a threat to us anymore. We have a hard remaining schedule , while at least some of our "rivals" will have much easier ones. We've managed to do all this without trades. Arguably, the FO and coaching decisions have masterfully managed the tank -- giving both vets and youngsters plenty of time to improve/showcase their games. There's probably nothing we can do to get to the worst record in the league. So trades aren't going to improve our draft probabilities.

If we manage to get Flagg, it's possible that we may decide to keep some of the vets and figure out how to win. Even without Flagg, the current vets would give us a lot more optionality in the offseason.

On the other hand, we've been managing to lose by the skin of our teeth at times lately. Our overall point differential is stronger than our record reflects. A few unexpected wins could put our current position in peril.
Click to expand...
Maybe we’ve been sitting a lot of our starters with “injuries”. I’m not sure if we can get away with that the rest of the season. When the entire team players were actually decent. I would be very surprised if we don’t move on from a few players before the trade deadline.
 
noahthejazz said:
yeah. Keyonte, Sensabaugh, Kessler, and Collier so far have planned out pretty well. Hendricks is injured,but based off of the end of last year and the first 3 games, he is MUCH improved (and way more ripped, lmao)
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Have they?

Keyonte is 1½ years and 100+ games in and still doesn't play D and is one of the worst players on D in the league. How is priorizing Keyonte's PG play (a position he will not play in the NBA) over playing D a good call? If Keyonte is on a future Jazz team (and if he's to stay in the NBA) they need him to play D, not to play PG.

Sensabaugh spent almost all of last year in the G league or on the bench, because Hardy couldn't get him to understand that he needs to focus on everything else but scoring. Granted, now he's been very good for the last month. One month doesn't do it for me though as proof of great development.

Collier was one of the worst NBA rotation players getting steady playing time until about 3 weeks ago. And yes, he's been good and shown promise for those 3 weeks, but again: that's three weeks.

Williams hasn't shown any signs of development this season - he's exactly the same non-entity as in game 1.

Hendricks had some ok games at the end of the year, in mostly garbage games playing with G-leaguers. His 3 games this season were not good. Hendricks had the skills and capability on D already the day he stepped into the Jazz facility. Refining those is of course important, but he has to have some role on offense, and that's completely unproven so far.

Flip? Ochai? NAW? THT? No development while with the Jazz really.
 
idiot said:
It's an interesting dilemma.

About half-way through the season and clearly now in the 2nd spot (esp. in the all-important # of wins). New Orleans and Toronto playing better now. Charlotte was as well (though the Miller injury may hurt there). Portland has probably put too much space between them and us for them to be a threat to us anymore. We have a hard remaining schedule , while at least some of our "rivals" will have much easier ones. We've managed to do all this without trades. Arguably, the FO and coaching decisions have masterfully managed the tank -- giving both vets and youngsters plenty of time to improve/showcase their games. There's probably nothing we can do to get to the worst record in the league. So trades aren't going to improve our draft probabilities.

If we manage to get Flagg, it's possible that we may decide to keep some of the vets and figure out how to win. Even without Flagg, the current vets would give us a lot more optionality in the offseason.

On the other hand, we've been managing to lose by the skin of our teeth at times lately. Our overall point differential is stronger than our record reflects. A few unexpected wins could put our current position in peril.
Click to expand...
Our schedule is brutal right now and will be for a while.

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Tanktastic said:
Have they?

Keyonte is 1½ years and 100+ games in and still doesn't play D and is one of the worst players on D in the league. How is priorizing Keyonte's PG play (a position he will not play in the NBA) over playing D a good call? If Keyonte is on a future Jazz team (and if he's to stay in the NBA) they need him to play D, not to play PG.

Sensabaugh spent almost all of last year in the G league or on the bench, because Hardy couldn't get him to understand that he needs to focus on everything else but scoring. Granted, now he's been very good for the last month. One month doesn't do it for me though as proof of great development.

Collier was one of the worst NBA rotation players getting steady playing time until about 3 weeks ago. And yes, he's been good and shown promise for those 3 weeks, but again: that's three weeks.

Williams hasn't shown any signs of development this season - he's exactly the same non-entity as in game 1.

Hendricks had some ok games at the end of the year, in mostly garbage games playing with G-leaguers. His 3 games this season were not good. Hendricks had the skills and capability on D already the day he stepped into the Jazz facility. Refining those is of course important, but he has to have some role on offense, and that's completely unproven so far.

Flip? Ochai? NAW? THT? No development while with the Jazz really.
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The jazz are tanking

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I think they should stop rewarding teams for losing. Make the 1st 4 picks lottery picks with every team in the Legue having an equal shot at winning. After the 1st 4 picks the rest of the draft proceeds as usual. The worst team record to the best. That would provide far less incentive to try to lose.
 
bopahull said:
I think they should stop rewarding teams for losing. Make the 1st 4 picks lottery picks with every team in the Legue having an equal shot at winning. After the 1st 4 picks the rest of the draft proceeds as usual. The worst team record to the best. That would provide far less incentive to try to lose.
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You would be ok if your least favorite team who is already really good added the number one pick to their roster the next year? What if the Jazz are good and our main competition gets the number one pick and we get pick 30?

Those scenarios might not be as bad as having teams sit healthy players, but I guarantee fans would complain very loudly.
 
One idea, can't remember if it's been brought up, is to have teams bid on pick numbers using cap space. Teams would have to make choices on building their team through free agency or through the draft.

I think I like this idea, but I know the player's union would hate having teams hoarding cap space, which could especially get bad when there is a generational type player like Wemby coming up.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Hendricks was shooting 22/25 splits in those 3 games...

Maybe he would have improved, and defensively he looked the part, but IDK how much he would have helped wins. He still looked like a severely limited offensive player.
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I think that could be excused as early season basketball. the rust from the off-season definitely didn't help especially going into sophmore year
 
noahthejazz said:
I think that could be excused as early season basketball. the rust from the off-season definitely didn't help especially going into sophmore year
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So what are you basing him being improved on exactly? He looked extremely bad offensively in SL as well.
 
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