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30 before 20

akirac73

akirac73

Well-Known Member
I recall back in the day Frank Layden saying the sign a good team was winning 30 games before losing 20. The Jazz did this 12 consecutive seasons from 1990 to 2001 during the Stockton/Malone glory days (the best ever was in 1999: 30-8). It's happened 3 times since during the D-will/Boozer era. Phil Jackson later said his benchmark for a championship contending team is winning 40 before losing 20. (The Jazz did this 8 times from 1990-2001, and once in 2007)

If the Jazz win the next 3 games our record will be 30-16 which would be the best record the Jazz have had since 2001 (that team went 30-15). Imagine that...This team is on nearly on pace with the last great Stockton/Malone team...and this despite the crap load of injuries we've had. Very exciting.
 
This is right in line with something Joe Torre used to say about his super successful Yankees teams which I do think rings true with many 'good teams'

Paraphrasing but it was something like "Judge the team in increments of 5 games over .500" The idea is to get to 5, then fight your way to 10 games over, 15, 20 etc..


I don't wanna truly co-sign anything from the Laydens without mentioning what a piss-poor job Scott did for the Knicks tho...
 
DutchJazzer said:
it should be 40 before 10 to be honest
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Interesting that you bring that up. From 1980 thru 2014 it was a fool proof theorem (Occurred 9 times and all 9 teams went on to win the championship). However from 2015 till now, it has happened 4 times and only one of those teams went on to win a championship (2015 Warriors).
 
PG_AB said:
I don't wanna truly co-sign anything from the Laydens without mentioning what a piss-poor job Scott did for the Knicks tho...
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How is what Frank said relevant to Scott's ability or inability to be a gm?? I do recall Frank winning coach of the year in the NBA. Does this make him a better coach then Jerry who never won coach of the year?
 
Meh. 30-20 is .600 and on pace for 49 wins. Who cares how a team gets there. Injuries might play a part. A team may catch fire later in the year (which might be better, in fact). Or there could be a key trade at the deadline.

Besides, for all this talk, the S/M teams never won jack. They often lost to lower-ranked teams in the playoffs.

As for 40-10, that equates to 65 wins. To reach that total means a team has to be at a contender level coming out of camp. 40-20 is 2/3 of the season and on pace for 55 wins. Hard to move the needle much either way in the last 20 games, unless you lose or get back a key player due to injuries.
 
Thee jazz fan said:
How is what Frank said relevant to Scott's ability or inability to be a gm?? I do recall Frank winning coach of the year in the NBA. Does this make him a better coach then Jerry who never won coach of the year?
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The name is tarnished in certain circles is all im saying. I still hold a grudge --- I could've done a better job as a 13 year old and they could've paid me in sour patch kids...

COTY isn't much of an indicator of anything in many cases; Terry Stotts was easily the COTY last season and didn't have any real chance to win, too often it's a popularity contest.
 
coaches smoaches.

I'm liking the players we have, rising talent coming from hard work in practice. I liked Jeff Hornacek and Mark Eaton. Adrian Dantly. We have a team on the rise.

Might really be a lot the good coaching, but the players make the game. yah yah, and I always thought I could've done a better job than the coach, but I never imagined I could jump or dribble or get the ball past the guy in front of me.
 
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babe said:
coaches smooches.

I'm liking the players we have, rising talent coming from hard work in practice. I liked Jeff Hornacek and Mark Eaton. Adrian Dantly. We have a team on the rise.

Might really be a lot the good coaching, but the players make the game. yah yah, and I always thought I could've done a better job than the coach, but I never imagined I could jump or dribble or get the ball past the guy in front of me.
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Coaches smooches?!?!?

Don't you mean, coaches roaches? Or coaches zoches? Ooooooooo... it seems to me that babe has a crush on coaches. Oooooooo!!!
 
akirac73 said:
I recall back in the day Frank Layden saying the sign a good team was winning 30 games before losing 20. The Jazz did this 12 consecutive seasons from 1990 to 2001 during the Stockton/Malone glory days (the best ever was in 1999: 30-8). It's happened 3 times since during the D-will/Boozer era. Phil Jackson later said his benchmark for a championship contending team is winning 40 before losing 20. (The Jazz did this 8 times from 1990-2001, and once in 2007)

If the Jazz win the next 3 games our record will be 30-16 which would be the best record the Jazz have had since 2001 (that team went 30-15). Imagine that...This team is on nearly on pace with the last great Stockton/Malone team...and this despite the crap load of injuries we've had. Very exciting.
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We need to go 13-3 then to become "championship contending," based on Jackson's comments. Let's not kid ourselves though. We're not winning a ring this year. And 40-19 is only about 55 win pace. Nothing special. But if we do get to 40-19, it shows how close we're getting to becoming elite and legitimately being able to win a title.
 
Wes Mantooth said:
We need to go 13-3 then to become "championship contending," based on Jackson's comments. Let's not kid ourselves though. We're not winning a ring this year. And 40-19 is only about 55 win pace. Nothing special. But if we do get to 40-19, it shows how close we're getting to becoming elite and legitimately being able to win a title.
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40-19 is 1 game away from a 500 season :D
 
Stifle Tower said:
Meh. 30-20 is .600 and on pace for 49 wins. Who cares how a team gets there. Injuries might play a part. A team may catch fire later in the year (which might be better, in fact). Or there could be a key trade at the deadline.

Besides, for all this talk, the S/M teams never won jack. They often lost to lower-ranked teams in the playoffs.

As for 40-10, that equates to 65 wins. To reach that total means a team has to be at a contender level coming out of camp. 40-20 is 2/3 of the season and on pace for 55 wins. Hard to move the needle much either way in the last 20 games, unless you lose or get back a key player due to injuries.
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except 30-19 (which is 30 before 20) is a 50 win pace
 
The Jazz Wonderbra said:
Coaches smooches?!?!?

Don't you mean, coaches roaches? Or coaches zoches? Ooooooooo... it seems to me that babe has a crush on coaches. Oooooooo!!!
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OK, so I have a spell checker/editor that rewrites my words. I fixed the comment, I think. I might agree with the coaches roaches thing,too, though.
 
babe said:
50-32 is a good year, maybe first round playoff good. 55-27 might make me hope for two rounds. 60 says we oughta go to the championship.
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I was a little skeptical, but I was shocked looking it up. West teams that ended on a 49-51 win pace in the last 6 years are 2-6 in the first round of the playoffs, and 0-2 in the second round; 6-16 since 2004-2005, and 1-5 in the second round since then. (Jazz were the only team to pass second round :))

54-56 win teams were 11-5 in the first round, 7-4 in the second and 2-5 in the conference finals.
 
Rgiss said:
I was a little skeptical, but I was shocked looking it up. West teams that ended on a 49-51 win pace in the last 6 years are 2-6 in the first round of the playoffs, and 0-2 in the second round; 6-16 since 2004-2005, and 1-5 in the second round since then. (Jazz were the only team to pass second round :))

54-56 win teams were 11-5 in the first round, 7-4 in the second and 2-5 in the conference finals.
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****...if that's the case, we need to readjust our target. I was thinking a 50-52 win season would get likely get us past the 1st round. Need to go for 54+...26-12 to finish off the season. That will be tough.
 
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