4th of July and Religion

[Gameface]

Then our immigration issues where the United States received more legal immigrants than any country on Earth, and the number of illegal immigrants dwarfs our number of legal immigrants must really be a thing you have trouble grasping. I do not believe there is any nation on the planet getting more immigrants from the United States than they are losing to the United States. Why do you think that is?

Huh? That doesn't make any kind of sense so I think I'm putting you back on ignore.

Bye

 

[Al-O-Meter]

It’s something that has concerned me for a long time.

With as obsessed as you seem to be with fascism, I do not understand how you are completely failing to see it develop right in front of you. And no it isn’t among Trump followers.

Most people know Hitler was a failed artist and he was the leader of the Nazi party but they know almost nothing of how he went from one to the other. Hitler started out as a Communist no different from a zillion other artists who talk up socialism. He was a member of the German SPD party which was Marxist but they were a soft Marxism so Hitler left the SPD to follow Jewish Socialist leader Kurt Eisner to overthrow the Wittelsbach monarch in Bavaria to form the People’s State of Bavaria.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_State_of_Bavaria

The People’s State of Bavaria was Marxist but it did not follow the dictates of Stalin’s Soviet Union. A short time later, Kurt Eisner was assassinated and Hiter joined the even harder-line Bavarian Soviet Republic which was a Marxist state that did align with Stalin’s Soviet Union.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavarian_Soviet_Republic

That is where the Nationalist-Socialist worker’s party of Germany sprang from. Nazi Germany was a blended economy with centralized state control being run by a leader steeped in socialist economic ideas and Stalinist police-state practices.

This very moment there is a big, powerful nation that evolved from a Marxist state but is now a blended economy with centralized state control being run by a leader steeped in socialist economic ideas and Stalinist police-state practices. They even have concentration camps and are in the midst of a massive military buildup.

If with the obvious example right in front of your face you still think it is America becoming a fascist nation, I’m thinking that paper you wrote back in college didn’t give you the insight you seem to believe it does.

 

[Deleted member 365]

Not so much with religion, but in the past few years I've been less comfortable with our somewhat forced patriotism. We don't need the national anthem played before every possible sporting event, when it would make more sense for international games, games on patriotic holidays, all-star games and championships. Make it special.

And making kids recite the Pledge of Allegience every day at school creeps me out. Seems so Hitler's Youth'ish. The flag is a symbol, not a thing to worship.

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Yes I agree a lot with this. I also don’t like the built-in shame and division these rituals have. Have you ever sat during the anthem at a sporting event? I know I haven’t. Yet, if you did I can’t imagine that you’d go unnoticed. But you’re there to watch sports and you might in fact be a better more responsible and patriotic citizen then a lot of those standing. It just doesn’t make sense.

Early in my career when I was teaching K-12 in Utah, I remember having a student who remained in his seat during the pledge. The student was ostracized at school. I always suspected part of it was because they were seen as “different” from the other students because he didn’t stand during the pledge. Again, a pretty good and normal student but suffered socially over something that really shouldn’t matter but does because we’ve built in this “performative patriotism” rake designed to trip those who dare step on the status quo.

This compulsory performative patriotism is something I wish we could get rid of.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Huh? That doesn't make any kind of sense so I think I'm putting you back on ignore.

Bye

You wrote a post saying that after having been in the Navy and seeing the world you didn't understand how other people in the Navy who also got to see the world could come back to the United States having a positive view of what our nation is. I pointed out that isn't just other people in the Navy who believed in America but people all over the world who are extremely familiar with the environments in other parts of the world. They lived there. They grew up there. It isn't ignorance of the world causing them to want to be part of America. As the vast majority stay, it also isn't ignorance of what America is. I think the issue is, and you couldn't have timed it more perfectly, the issue is that you only chose to see what you want to see. This issue isn't the ignorance of other people. It is the ignorance you willfully cultivate in yourself by refusing to see that which makes you uncomfortable or doesn't fit with your disillusioned world view.

If you ever decide you're up to it, I'll welcome you back. If not then know I wish you no ill will.

 

[fishonjazz]

Nearly every major American politician has tried to do that exact same thing.

The difference with Trump and his supporter's use of the flag is that the other side has run away from the flag making it look one-sided. Playing the national anthem before a sporting event didn't used to be controversial. The other side didn't used to say things like "We should make things more inclusive by making a rule to exclude..." What used to be a symbol that despite our differences, at the end of the day we we're all in this together has been replaced by "it reminds me of the Hitler Youth program". That support of the flag is so one-sided now isn't because of Trump but because the other side dropped their flags in the dirt and walked away leaving the Trump supporters as the only ones still waving the flags.

Lol at those picture as a comparison.


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[Al-O-Meter]

Lol at those picture as a comparison.

In pulling up pictures I originally went back further in time and all candidates are in flag pictures but even only as far back as Jimmy Carter the photos are mostly black and white which didn't have the same impact. I chose the Hillary and Clinton/Gore one because their campaigns were incorporating flag images right into their campaign signs making it clear the campaigns were very much trying to attach themselves to the flag.

 

[One Brow]

Why do you think that is?

We have a lot of wealth, even at the poorer levels; we haver birthright citizenship; we don't have the same level of organized crime as most of Central America. They don't come because they want to carry protest signs.

 

[Deleted member 365]

Trump supporters: America sucks and needs to be made great again.

Also Trump Supporters: How dare anyone question America’s greatness! America is perfect and how dare anyone think otherwise!

Trump: Why don’t immigrants from other industrialized countries with better infrastructure, universal health care, low gun violence rates, paid time off, and higher life expectancy want to come here? Why do only poor people from 3rd world ******** countries desperate to get out of Central America want to come here?

 

[Deleted member 365]

We have a lot of wealth, even at the poorer levels; we haver birthright citizenship; we don't have the same level of organized crime as most of Central America. They don't come because they want to carry protest signs.

Americans who has been to Canada, Asia, and Western Europe would most likely agree with you. I’ve loved all my trips to Europe. I’d move there today if my employment and my wife’s employment could be guaranteed. My wife has been to Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and Thailand. Loved it there. Japan and South Korea were places she said she could easily live if her job could be guaranteed. Personally, I find Vancouver tempting. But again, employment.

Sadly, most Americans don’t travel out of country. In fact, I saw a survey not too long ago that most Americans rarely even leave their own states. Like ever. For their entire lifetimes. I found that hard to believe. But then again, I guess I shouldn’t. A lot of our issues are exactly because people don’t ever leave their comfortable local bubbles. If they did, they’d see our run down infrastructure and ridiculously awful health care system and recognize that we might not be the god-led exceptional country they’ve been led on to believe.

 

[Deleted member 365]

Was talking to a colleague from France. Her husband broke his arm and they rushed him to the ER here in Utah county. First thing by they asked when he got there? Proof of insurance. Then they had to go through the “awesome” routine of filling out all that paperwork to make sure the ER wasn’t going to take it up their shorts to treat him.

She was blown away.

Apparently, France doesn’t do that. In France, where they have universal coverage, things are a lot better. I read this book years ago and found it enlightening. You’re probably familiar with this book and some of its writings.

Amazon product ASIN B003XQEVMQView: https://www.amazon.com/Healing-America-Global-Better-Cheaper-ebook/dp/B003XQEVMQ/ref=pd_aw_di_ci_mcx_2l_mi_ca_mcx_picks_views_3?pd_rd_w=pir3p&content-id=amzn1.sym.ef550dd5-ff16-4387-8a19-a57b581819af&pf_rd_p=ef550dd5-ff16-4387-8a19-a57b581819af&pf_rd_r=WXWVSQ35CWW6MNDJ243E&pd_rd_wg=RJVKU&pd_rd_r=70539a6a-491b-491e-820e-878ed6f10cd9&pd_rd_i=B003XQEVMQ

 

[Deleted member 365]

Huh? That doesn't make any kind of sense so I think I'm putting you back on ignore.

Bye

Trust me, you’re not missing out on his nonsensical posts. He rarely has any relevant facts but always has poorly formed opinions on… well everything.

 

[Deleted member 365]

I hate that trump highjacked the flag as if its his own personal prop or piece of merchandise.

I really agree with this. I hate how the flag has become cheap tribal virtue signaling. again, it’s all performative patriotism and it cheapens the real thing; being concerned for your fellow neighbor, being responsible and law abiding, not being an ******* and yelling at a bus driver or Costco worker for asking you to wear a mask.