Acquiring a #1,2 option
- Thread starter franklin
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billyshelby
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KOC has mentioned the Detroit teams several times in interviews. So it will be interesting to see what choices he makes as the team builds. I'm not sure he wants that alpha dog.
But I think he's crazy if he doesn't throw a Max offer at Harden after next season as an RFA.
Other than that, only Favors has a chance to be a true #1 scorer, but he's obviously year(s) away from being that guy, and may never get there. Burks is the same. And the rest of the FA market the next 2 years doesn't have anyone in Harden's class. So it's the Detroit model until further notice.
But I think he's crazy if he doesn't throw a Max offer at Harden after next season as an RFA.
Other than that, only Favors has a chance to be a true #1 scorer, but he's obviously year(s) away from being that guy, and may never get there. Burks is the same. And the rest of the FA market the next 2 years doesn't have anyone in Harden's class. So it's the Detroit model until further notice.
just because
Well-Known Member
Exactly. The answer to your question is sitting on our bench.
That's what it would take. OKC would do anything financially possible to keep him. That might be the one thing that isn't feasible for them.
I think it was you that mentioned the idea of trading Millsap and Hayward for Harden and filler. I think that is the Jazz's best shot at getting him. One of the big hitches, though, is that OKC doesn't really have salary that can be used as filler. Perkins is the closest thing.
candrew
Well-Known Member
Should your best defender also be your #1 scoring option? I don't want Favors holding back on D because we need him to be on the floor to score 20 a night. How often do we see bigs with the mindset of playing soft defense in order to stay out of foul trouble so they can get more touches on offense?
In the long run, The Jazz win more games with Favors scoring 14-16 a night and playing lock down D.
Jazz could be deadly with a option 2a, 2b & 2c of Favors, Burks and Hayward.
They'll have plenty of cap room to get a #1 after next season.
D
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vslice02
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At this point, I think the Jazz are still in the stages of figuring out how high the ceilings of Favors, Kanter, and Burks reach. I agree whole-heartedly Al Jefferson should not be the #1-option as this team looks to grow over the next few years, but I don't think it's imperative to cement in stone "_____ will be our #1-scoring option for the 2011-12 season."
Long-term you want this team to eventually have a "go-to scorer," but if we move Big Al and start the season with more of a collective mindset where we get a little bit from everyone on different nights, that's not a bad option and we've seen it work just this past season when Big Al was out. What it does is it buys you some time and lets some guys develop and gets you to the summer of 2013 instead of settling and trying to force pieces together when there may not be any better alternatives on the market.
You don't see it often because few players have the ability to be factors at both ends of the court, but if Favors develops the ability to be a #1-option you don't purposely hold him back from that because if he's that good he can figure out how to be a major factor at both ends. (fwiw I don't think Favors is a go-to scorer right now, but I think he can become a very good scorer and presence in the post - which is why the Jazz need to stay patient and open-minded in his developmental process and not automatically relegate him to a complementary scorer).
Long-term you want this team to eventually have a "go-to scorer," but if we move Big Al and start the season with more of a collective mindset where we get a little bit from everyone on different nights, that's not a bad option and we've seen it work just this past season when Big Al was out. What it does is it buys you some time and lets some guys develop and gets you to the summer of 2013 instead of settling and trying to force pieces together when there may not be any better alternatives on the market.
Never seemed an issue with Tim Duncan, Dwight Howard, LeBron James, Kevin Garnett (T-Wolves), Hakeem Olajuwon, Patrick Ewing, Alonzo Mourning, ect.
You don't see it often because few players have the ability to be factors at both ends of the court, but if Favors develops the ability to be a #1-option you don't purposely hold him back from that because if he's that good he can figure out how to be a major factor at both ends. (fwiw I don't think Favors is a go-to scorer right now, but I think he can become a very good scorer and presence in the post - which is why the Jazz need to stay patient and open-minded in his developmental process and not automatically relegate him to a complementary scorer).
Favors will probably be the #1 post option due to his length and explosiveness.
Kanter will probably be the #2 post option. Favors and Kanter each need to work on their inside-out game, where both can score on the block and both can hit a 15-ft. jumper from the high post and the baseline.
Hayward will probably be a facilitator and spot-up shooter.
Then the Jazz need a guy who can create with the ball in his hands. That player could be at any of the 1 - 3 positions. He'd need to have a solid jumper, a good first step and the ability to score from multiple spots on the floor. I think Burks is going to be a good player, but I'm not sure I see him becoming quite that go-to scorer. He could be.
Kanter will probably be the #2 post option. Favors and Kanter each need to work on their inside-out game, where both can score on the block and both can hit a 15-ft. jumper from the high post and the baseline.
Hayward will probably be a facilitator and spot-up shooter.
Then the Jazz need a guy who can create with the ball in his hands. That player could be at any of the 1 - 3 positions. He'd need to have a solid jumper, a good first step and the ability to score from multiple spots on the floor. I think Burks is going to be a good player, but I'm not sure I see him becoming quite that go-to scorer. He could be.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
Well, the counterargument is Howard who is both first option on offense and defense monster. But Favors is obviously not ready to do that any more than Howard was going into his 3rd year.
But in general I agree with your point. I want Favors surrounded by guys who can score so he never has to pace himself defensively.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
I did say that, but I also don't think it's feasible. I still think OKC is going to build around their Big 3 and let Ibaka go. I also don't think Hayward/Millsap gets the deal done. Probably need a top draft pick as well. And even if the GS pick was enough, you then risk Harden leaving. But I'd certainly make the phone call and gauge their interest.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
Just saw VSlice's point and I agree with that.
Option 1 has to be Favors either in the post or on the pick and role. I like Hayward as the 3rd or 4th scoring option. Either Burks or Millsap need to become the main scoring option off the bench. Kanter could develop into a serious scoring option with a midrange game and a post game. Hopefully a little like Marc Gasol's offensive game.
If Burks had a mid post game he would be a very good second scoring option.
If Burks had a mid post game he would be a very good second scoring option.
There is really very little chance that anyone of them will become the player that James Harden is. It is possible, but unlikely. Therefore I would give up any two of them, anyone on the team for Harden. Harden is the kind of player we have not had since Malone-stockton, the kind of offensive player who can single-handedly take over a game: give him the ball and get out of the way. Really, even better than stock-malone at that aspect of the game.
These guys are few and far between and the chance to grab one equally rare. They are also the key to winning a ring. Jazz should make every effort to get him.
Wow, I have to watch more OKC games because I don't see Harden being better than either Stockton and Malone. Both of those guys could get their shots when they wanted to do so. John just decided to pass more. I think a recent ESPN poll asking if Harden was a MAX player amounted to him receiving about 38 percent saying he is a Max player. I might do Millsap and Hayward but throwing in the GS pick is giving too much. I think Harden is a $9-10 million dollar player. His production isn't that much more than Millsap. I would rather pay the MAX than trade Millsap and Hayward. The Jazz are trying to improve the team not make trades that are a wash statistically. Do not get me wrong I like Harden a lot but how much better are the Jazz if they lose both Millsap and Hayward. Not much at all and maybe just the same.