To me there are two different points. Is Al an efficient player, and is Al a dark hole (are these the same thing, or are they different)? Another part to the dynamic is coaching. I am a firm believer in the onus being on the coach for the overall effectiveness of the defense. You can have one or two bad defensive players and still have a stupendous defense (e.g., Tom Thibodeau). How much of the responsibility does the coach take? Same goes for Scotty Brooks. Bogut's really good, but who else?
Al Jefferson (2nd best defensive bigman in the NBA?)
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To me there are two different points. Is Al an efficient player, and is Al a dark hole (are these the same thing, or are they different)? Another part to the dynamic is coaching. I am a firm believer in the onus being on the coach for the overall effectiveness of the defense. You can have one or two bad defensive players and still have a stupendous defense (e.g., Tom Thibodeau). How much of the responsibility does the coach take? Same goes for Scotty Brooks. Bogut's really good, but who else?
D
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Noah, Tyson Chandler, Dwight Howard, The carrot top looking Lopez twin, the black clippers center who blocks a ton of shots, and that long halvsie from the Wizards are all better defenders IMO.
I think one could also argue that Marcus Camby, Chris Kaman, Andrew Bogut, Tim Duncan, Brendon Haywood, and Nene are better too....
If we're going off on just "bigmen" and not centers, I think you could argue that Aldrich, Blake Griffin, Marc Gasol, Bosh, and the Heat center are all better defenders.
Hell, I think it's debatable on whether Al Jefferson is the best defensive big man on this team! Derrick Favors showed more to me defensively than Al ever did...
I think one could also argue that Marcus Camby, Chris Kaman, Andrew Bogut, Tim Duncan, Brendon Haywood, and Nene are better too....
If we're going off on just "bigmen" and not centers, I think you could argue that Aldrich, Blake Griffin, Marc Gasol, Bosh, and the Heat center are all better defenders.
Hell, I think it's debatable on whether Al Jefferson is the best defensive big man on this team! Derrick Favors showed more to me defensively than Al ever did...
This is the crux of what I was trying to elicit from this thread. Besides the mystical feeling someone has inside them, how do we quantify any statement about Al's effectiveness, defensively or otherwise? This isn't necessary since people have been making statements since time began without any effect at all on their ability to sleep at night, and it won't end now. I'm just wondering how to objectively and quantifiably make statements about players--particularly players who have lots of stats saying the opposite. What good are stats at all when we can say X is better than Y just like the ESPN rankings (very scientific by the way; about as much as breaking wind or choosing McDonald's over Wendy's, the latter usually causing the former).
Jazz4ever
Well-Known Member
Sadly, a lot of what you are asking is not measurable. The team concept on both offense and defense have so many variables in basketball these little charts Synergy comes up with are mostly for entertainment value. For instance even on one they measured, pick and roll situations, how would they measure if it was bad defense on Al's part or a blown assignment? Was there supposed to be a switch and someone forgot? Did Harris go under the screen of a 3 point shooter? Whoops Al now gets docked for the guard's folly. Adjusted +/- isn't perfect, but I do like it because there is nowhere to hide from in this stat. If you are a bad defender, eventually you will be exposed. Players that tend to do the little things, like dive for balls and take charges, usually end up in the green, while lazy players are in the red. Let's just say Al is pretty lazy.
GVC
Well-Known Member
Yep. Even if you hate +/-, there's some value in looking at the adjusted numbers (https://basketballvalue.com/index.php) and in looking at various on-court/off-court stats on 82games.com. These stats don't show the whole picture, obviously, but they're decent indicators IMO.
This has already been brought up before, but whatever, its a lockout. I think Al is for the most part an average defender. He has moments were he is pretty good, and moments were he is pretty bad.
I suppose one could watch every single defensive possession of Al like Lock did with his pick-and-rolls on offense, but we all have better things to do. I wonder if there's a stat that shows the opposing teams field goal percentage when a given player is on the court. This would at least isolate the defensive aspect of the team on the +/- while the player is in the game. Points scored while a player is on the floor to me is not the whole story. The opposing team's shooting percentage and types of shots would be interesting if there was a handy-dandy stat. You statisticians would know better than me. I'm not a master at stats but would like to learn more about them since they're fun and quantifiable.
GVC
Well-Known Member
82games.com
Here are the On-Court/Off-Court numbers for AJ: https://www.82games.com/1011/10UTA15.HTM#onoff
InGameStrategy
Well-Known Member
And imagine how much better he would be if he just tried (and/or if defense was enforced, resulting in his butt hitting the bench for a possession or more if he was dogging it, eventually leading to him starting to buck up and play respectable D).
That's why I believe the coach assumes a lot of the blame for crappy defenses as I said above (Thibodeau; Brooks).
Favors Flave
Well-Known Member
I agreed with everything except Blake Griffin and bosh. They are horrible defenders, especially Griffin. he puts no effort on D at all