Al Jefferson's Rebounding (Article).
- Thread starter BYE
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Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
Yeah. So much wrong here.
Yer doin' total rebounds to rank the Jazz, which is quite possibly the absolute worst way to determine how good a team rebounds.
Jazz were 2nd in offensive rebound rate, of which Jefferson was 6th on the team, behind Kanter, Favors, Evans, Millsap, and Carroll. That is where the Jazz increased their rebounding totals compared to the rest of the league. Jazz missed a lot of shots, and rebounded a lot of them.
Defensively, what actually matters for this thread, the Jazz rebound rate was 11th, which was decent. And Jefferson did indeed have the best defensive rebound rate on the team. However, as a whole, the team rebounded a bit worse (on both ends of the floor) with Jefferson on the floor.
What this means, and I'll do it in a sentence below so there's not the image on wall of text that people seemingly refuse to read:
The Jazz' rebound numbers were inflated from a decent rebounding team to a great rebounding team because of high offensive rebound rates, which Jefferson contributed very little to.
A. You're dinging Al Jefferson for not bricking close shots and then tipping them 2-3 times like Favors does?
B. If he's such a terrible offensive rebounder then he must be an even better defensive rebounder since his numbers are still high despite the allegedly poor offensive boarding. That contradicts what you're saying about the Jazz being a mediocre defensive rebounding team.
C. I would expect the team to be better rebounders without Jefferson on the floor as Kanter and Favors are elite rebounders, and, the ball isn't going through the post as much so the bigs are in position to grab more offensive boards.
Or getting them blocked back into his hands like Kanter does.
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
I guess Favors and Kanter having a better Field Goal% than Jefferson helps your argument, too, right?
I miss your point, because, you know, you left out context.
asian_roger
Well-Known Member
Jefferson is the type of player that inflates his own stats, but the stats are almost meaningless in the end when the team does not get a W. Jefferson is a good guy, great footwork and push shot, but Ty is not using him properly. Kind of disappointing to have so many plays run through him. Hopefully summer camp will change things up a bit.
Like it or not, Jefferson is probably here to stay. At least Favors was a beast in the playoffs. FAVORS <<<<<<< future. JEFFERSON <<<<<<<<<<<< big meh.
Remember Boozer? The guy was a rebounding king, even in NBA 2k7. <<<HAHAHA
Like it or not, Jefferson is probably here to stay. At least Favors was a beast in the playoffs. FAVORS <<<<<<< future. JEFFERSON <<<<<<<<<<<< big meh.
Remember Boozer? The guy was a rebounding king, even in NBA 2k7. <<<HAHAHA
I don't really see how Jefferson inflated his stats this year. I completely understand that argument if you are talking about the rest of his career, but his stats were legitimate this year.
I thinks he means inflated as in he makes his stats look good and doesn't really care about anything else, which I may actually believe after watching Jefferson for some time now. His worst attributes are things that do not stand out in a box score.
Just imagine how many more rebounds he could possibly have if he played better defense and forced the opposition to actually miss some shots.
GVC
Well-Known Member
I'm guessing Cy will ignore the following, just as he did a week or two ago (no surprsie):
Al was 16th of 32 qualified centers in rebounding rate this past season (per espn.com).
The Jazz's rebounding percentage with Al on the court was 50.2%; with Al off the court it was 55.4% (per 82games.com). The other 3 main Jazz bigs on-court/off-court numbers were better.
In short, Al is an amazingly average team and individual rebounder (at the 5, at least).
Al was 16th of 32 qualified centers in rebounding rate this past season (per espn.com).
The Jazz's rebounding percentage with Al on the court was 50.2%; with Al off the court it was 55.4% (per 82games.com). The other 3 main Jazz bigs on-court/off-court numbers were better.
In short, Al is an amazingly average team and individual rebounder (at the 5, at least).
I've already said that Kanter and Favors are elite rebounders. Of course we are going to be a better rebounding team with them on the floor instead of Jefferson.
And get out of here with the rebound rate nonsense. A decent amount of the people above him play much fewer minutes per game. Rebounding rate is harder to sustain when your minutes increase and you are more than just a hustle player. If you adjust it to players who play over 30 mpg, he is 7th best.
Like I said, I never stated Jefferson was elite, but he is far from average.
GVC
Well-Known Member
Of course, there were only 8 qualified centers who averaged 30+ minutes per game this season. 7th out of 8 is not better than average.
Or on a team with limited option at Center.
Cy: I am sincerely curious. Are you debating all this Al stuff because;
1) You are just a contrarian
2) Trolling
3) You believe he is truly an elite NBA center
4) You are just providing counter-points to what you consider an unfair indictment of Al's value
?
1) You are just a contrarian
2) Trolling
3) You believe he is truly an elite NBA center
4) You are just providing counter-points to what you consider an unfair indictment of Al's value
?
GVC
Well-Known Member
I thought we were talking about rebounding. I was only responding to your nonsensical response (that 7th of 8 is above average).
The stats point to Jefferson being at best an average rebounder at the 5. Nothing I saw throughout the season leads me to believe otherwise. Do you really think he's an above average rebounder at his position?
The 8 centers who play over 30 mpg are all really good. That is why they play over 30 mpg. Each one of those centers is either an All-Star, or an All-Defensive team type player (Save Monroe and Gortat).
Dwight Howard (All-Star) - Has no challenge for rebounds on his team. He is pretty much the responsible for all of their rebounding. Also clearly way better than anyone in the NBA at rebounding regardless.
Marc Gasol (All Star) - Actually one of the ones with a RPG less than Al's, despite playing more minutes and having Zach Randolph injured for a large part of the season.
Andrew Bynum (All Star) - 7' athletic center.
Tyson Chandler (Defensive Player of the Year) - His sole role on the team is to rebound and play defense. He fights Amare for rebounds. All of that, and he is still barely rebounds better than Al.
Marcin Gortat - One of the 8 who isn't an All-Star. He does play on a fast paced Suns team that has 0 true power forwards to challenge him for rebounds. The Suns were also one of the worst rebounding teams in the league.
Greg Monroe - Another one of the non-stars. Same thing with Monroe happens that happens with Gorat. He plays next to ZERO rebounders. He is the only person capable on the team of grabbing over 8 rebounds any given night.
Joakihm Noah (All Defensive 2nd team) - Great rebounder, but is another player who is solely focused on defense/rebounding. Clearly a better rebounder than Jefferson regardless, but he doesn't have half of Jefferson's offensive responsibilities.
And finally Al Jefferson. Other than Howard (Gasol may be equal), probably has the most offensive responsibilities than anyone on the list. He also plays with 3 other good rebounders. Millsap has always been a good rebounder and he also play alongside Derrick Favors for stretches, who is a dominant rebounder.
Not saying Jefferson is the best rebounder of this bunch, but I would probably put him around the middle of this group. Even if he was the worst on this group, everyone in this list is above-average rebounder.