Are we just not a very good team?

[Jingled]

At this point we're basically the same as we've been the last 3 years, a good team but not great and definitely not a contender. I still think this team has more talent than the past 3 years and has a higher ceiling, but they definitely have a lot of things to work on and figure out.

 

[Beer]

Peaks and valleys. Started out on a plain, then the highest of peaks, now a pretty deep ravine. Team was bound to hit another slump. They aren't a 65 win team by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Eminence]

he isn't an NBA player

He's a fine 3rd stringer, but not a regular rotation guy for sure.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

I think the Jazz are still a work in progress. The issue we have now is the issue that was pointed out during the first 5 - 10 games of the season. The Jazz have more shooters/scorers this season, but it's come at the expense of size, athleticism and toughness that helped make our defense top of the league. One immediate stat where it shows is in our rebounding. The Nuggets had a +8 rebound advantage, and the Blazers had a +13 rebound advantage. The Nuggets were even playing without Millsap and Plumlee. Even the depleted Rockets had a +2 rebound advantage without Capella.

I think it's okay to put a lineup out there with Conley and Mitchell playing the guard spots, or even a three-guard lineup with Conley, Mitchell and Clarkson with the 2nd unit. However, if that's the case, the guys at the 4 and 5 need to defend, fill space defensively and go hard to the boards to compensate. Niang and Ed Davis haven't been up to that task. It's asking an awful lot of Royce to be our primary perimeter defender and then also a primary rebounder. This is why the Warriors have energy bigs like Draymond and Kevon Looney, and why the Rockets relied so much on guys like Trevor Ariza and PJ Tucker to compensate for their lack of size on the perimeter.

Plain and simple, the Jazz need more size, toughness, energy and defense from the backup 4/5 spots. Rudy singlehandedly holds down the fort for the starting unit, but the minute he goes off the court, we're at a disadvantage.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

He's a fine 3rd stringer, but not a regular rotation guy for sure.

He's not an NBA athlete. He's the Matt Bonner-type shooting specialist, which is something we don't actually need given how many other guys we have who can shoot. Even Doug McDermott is more athletic than Georges.

We think he's good only because he replaced Jeff Green, who was a complete disaster.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

I mean, we've seen this movie before. We know we can't play Ed Davis, and yet, here we are.

 

[DasJazz]

I’ve said for weeks our defense is about average. We’ve slipped to 10th in defensive efficiency and I expect us to slip to 12th or so in the coming weeks. There is absolutely nothing special about it outside of Rudy.

Here’s the biggest problem as I see it. Royce should probably start and certainly close. He’s our best perimeter defender in a league that plays small ball and not having him on the court when it matters most is bad. It is a major problem. Rudy, O’Neale and Mitchell absolutely should be closing games. Ingles and Bogey should be the others imo. It just makes too much sense from an offensive, defensive and chemistry standpoint, no matter how much money we pay Mike.

If the guy wants to truly win that badly, he’d suck it up and volunteer to come off the bench. If he wants to have his ego stroked, we need to ship his *** out this summer.

While I agree with you on much of this, Mike certainly hasn't been the problem during our losing streak. For what it's worth, Royce played like hot garbage against Portland.

 

[Keefe]

While I agree with you on much of this, Mike certainly hasn't been the problem during our losing streak. For what it's worth, Royce played like hot garbage against Portland.

Chemistry and meshing players strengths and weakness together has been a problem.

 

[Truth]

The Jazz have 6 guys , any of whom could go for 25 /30 points on 70 % shooting on any given night, and is a bit disappointing that 2 of them will have a great offensive game, and the Jazz might still lose because 3 others will shoot badly or just not even get any shots. They need to get the whole team clicking together somehow.

I hope they don't give up on the season. Nobody really expected that they were going to just run away with it did they? To me this season is already a success, as long as they keep it together and don't just fall apart, which they might if they let the negativity get to them. Getting 2 allstars is a very positive thing which could bring intangible benefits for years to come. Here is hoping that they just keep scrapping and improving every game as best they can, and they might surprise some people before its over.

 

[Beer]

Chemistry and meshing players strengths and weakness together has been a problem.

Agree, Royce and Joe are pretty much worthless if they have to play with the 2nd unit. Bring Conley back into the starting lineup really hampers their success. Would much prefer Conley stay on the bench and just let him be the alpha with Clarkson as the 2nd option.

 

[DasJazz]

Chemistry and meshing players strengths and weakness together has been a problem.

Yep. But again, for what it's worth in the game last night, starting lineup with Conley was +8, ALL other combinations were -25.

I am really hoping this couple of days of practice will help right the ship and get us rolling again.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Chemistry and meshing players strengths and weakness together has been a problem.

Because everyone has a scorer's mentality--Mitchell, Conley, Clarkson, Bogey, even Niang. Everyone wants the ball and wants to shoot. They're getting in each other's way a bit. Then Rudy will complain that he's not getting enough touches. We've been here already.

The Jazz probably need to trade both Davis and Niang for a defensive player.

 

[Release the Kraken]

The Lakers haven’t lost back to back games all year, we just lost 4 straight! We were the hottest team in the league for fifteen games and it was intoxicating. Truth is that we have some fairly glaring deficits. If we don’t address these deficits before the deadline we got no shot IMO.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

The Jazz need to make a few business decisions. If they want to maximize Rudy, then Joe has to initiate the offense more and Conley needs to play off the ball more. But that means Conley doesn't get in a rhythm like he did last night.

If the Jazz want Clarkson to carry a scoring load with the 2nd unit, then it's more important to pair him with a PF who is a 2-way player, rather than a pure shooting specialist like Niang. And since Clarkson is a limited defender, the Jazz have to compensate by playing him with an athletic wing and center who do play solid defense.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

The Lakers haven’t lost back to back games all year, we just lost 4 straight! We were the hottest team in the league for fifteen games and it was intoxicating. Truth is that we have some fairly glaring deficits. If we don’t address these deficits before the deadline we got no shot IMO.

The Lakers lost 4 straight earlier this year.

 

[Keefe]

Because everyone has a scorer's mentality--Mitchell, Conley, Clarkson, Bogey, even Niang. Everyone wants the ball and wants to shoot. They're getting in each other's way a bit. Then Rudy will complain that he's not getting enough touches. We've been here already.

The Jazz probably need to trade both Davis and Niang for a defensive player.

Hence why Royce needs to start.

 

[Truth]

I don't get why the offense either has to run through only one of Conley or Ingles. Say you've got 110 / 120 offensive possessions a game. Just alternate, Con / Ing, or Con / Ing / Mitch. You'll get more mileage out of them this way. You can't run the same play over and over anyway.

 

[416Klawzz]

He's a fine 3rd stringer, but not a regular rotation guy for sure.

only worthy of garbage minutes, shouldn't be utilized as we are using him

 

[jom2003]

people call us fools gold. hopefully we make the adjustments at the deadline

Shooting is fools gold.

The Jazz have 6 guys , any of whom could go for 25 /30 points on 70 % shooting on any given night, and is a bit disappointing that 2 of them will have a great offensive game, and the Jazz might still lose because 3 others will shoot badly or just not even get any shots. They need to get the whole team clicking together somehow.

That isn't the issue. The issue is that 4 out of those 6 guys aren't good at anything besides scoring and shooting. They are huge liability and hurt our defense/rebounding whenever we put them on the floor.

Shooting is fool’s gold that you can’t rely SOLELY to win in basketball. Hou was the best shooting team in 2018 then went 0-27 from deep during their most important game of the season to give up a 3-2 lead against the warriors during playoffs.

Good shooting certainly raises a team’s ceiling but it can also make you or break you. You can't give up every other important aspect of basketball in order to pursue it.

You can expect terrible shooters to have some good shooting nights but you can't expect terrible defenders/rebounders to have good night's defending or rebounding on any night.

 

[jom2003]

The Jazz need to make a few business decisions. If they want to maximize Rudy, then Joe has to initiate the offense more and Conley needs to play off the ball more. But that means Conley doesn't get in a rhythm like he did last night.

If the Jazz want Clarkson to carry a scoring load with the 2nd unit, then it's more important to pair him with a PF who is a 2-way player, rather than a pure shooting specialist like Niang. And since Clarkson is a limited defender, the Jazz have to compensate by playing him with an athletic wing and center who do play solid defense.

We don't have enough defensive pieces to accommodate all that. Besides our starting unit, every other rotation lineup is almost guaranteed to have more terrible defenders on the floor than the good ones