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Are You Believers Now?!!!

VINYLONE said:
Coaching got better? Well since you can't use the team's record at the end of the year or the team's overall defensive rating, what're you basing that on?
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Are you actually suggesting that:

1. Ty got progressively worse as a coach?

2. The roster has more talent this year than last year, and had more talent last year than the year before?


I know many don't agree, but Ty made noticeable (in-game) improvements in lineup construction/role assignment/minute allocation and timeout use. I also think you have to hold him partly responsible for keeping the team together despite the early struggles and injuries this season. The young dudes were pretty composed, and competed fairly consistently in the middle of the season.

The defense didn't pan out, and while that likely has a lot to do with the youth and lack of overall physicality and experience on the roster, Ty seemed slow to make adjustments, and the players frequently seemed confused about where they should be/what they should do in a scramble.

I think the Jazz FO did the right thing bringing Ty back this season, and the right thing in letting him go today. I'm not convinced that Ty won't end up a decent head coach somewhere at some point, and I think it's pretty clear he improved in his time with the Jazz.
 
GVC said:
Are you actually suggesting that:

1. Ty got progressively worse as a coach?

2. The roster has more talent this year than last year, and had more talent last year than the year before?


I know many don't agree, but Ty made noticeable (in-game) improvements in lineup construction/role assignment/minute allocation and timeout use. I also think you have to hold him partly responsible for keeping the team together despite the early struggles and injuries this season. The young dudes were pretty composed, and competed fairly consistently in the middle of the season.

The defense didn't pan out, and while that likely has a lot to do with the youth and lack of overall physicality and experience on the roster, Ty seemed slow to make adjustments, and the players frequently seemed confused about where they should be/what they should do in a scramble.

I think the Jazz FO did the right thing bringing Ty back this season, and the right thing in letting him go today. I'm not convinced that Ty won't end up a decent head coach somewhere at some point, and I think it's pretty clear he improved in his time with the Jazz.
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There's a lot of times that we disagree, but this is not one of them. Great post.
 
sepanol said:
1 good move doesnt make a man hero but consistently many good moves do. So i expect more to come, im not satisfied with just 1.
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1. Trading up for Burke. Great move, imo, don't think you can argue that it wasn't at least a good move.
2. Trading to get Gobert. Still got the guy he liked even though he had to trade their pick to move up.
3. Getting Raul Neto. Most people love this move.
4. Trading GS for draft picks. Uses the cap they need to use anyway, gets a few picks, which were 1 injury away from being lottery in this years draft, and we'll see what happens in 2017. It was Corbin who insisted on Playing RJ, not DL.
5. Choosing to let go of Corbin

Bad moves
1. Not trading Jefferson or Milsap. This worked out because they used the cap space wisely, so I don't see it being a bad move in hind sight.
2. Not trading Jefferson or Williams. We'll see what he does with the capspace before deciding if this is a good move or not. Don't think a second round pick really helps the Jazz, and don't think the Jazz had much better options, so I don't see this as a bad move, although I guess it could be argued.
3. Considering Boylen as head coach. Really?!?!?! We'll see who he actually hires though.

All that said, we have to see what the Jazz do in the next 2-3 years. I liked KOC's moves for the most part, but they didn't end up getting the Jazz anywhere. I think the moves look good on paper, but like I said, we'll have to wait and see.
 
franklin said:
I believe the Jazz willingly lynched Ty to save face with fans. The integrity of the organization and these notions of loyalty, etc. are officially a thing of the past.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't DL say before the season that Ty would primarily be judged on how well the Jazz played defense? So, where in the end did the Jazz fall in the defensive efficiency? https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/defensive-efficiency.

Sure looks like 29/30 to me. So where would DL's integrity have been if he HADN'T let Ty go after making that statement at the start of the year? No one would have been able to trust him after that.
 
GVC said:
I'd still like to know why/how you think Ty got progressively worse and the roster got progressively better over the last couple years.
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I thought the roster with foye, mo, marvin, sap, jeffy, carrol, 2nd year burks, 2nd year kanter, 3rd year hayward favors evans, and the rest was a better roster than the rookie burks and kanter, 2nd year hayward favors evans, sap, jeffy, devin harris, josh howard, raja et etc.

Wasnt the teams record better with the raja bell team than randy foye team? (I dont actually know if it was or wasnt but i think the raja team made the playoffs)
 
GVC said:
I'd still like to know why you think Ty got progressively worse and the roster got progressively better over the last couple years.
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I don't know why you think the roster got better. You basically add RJ and Burke, and lose Milsap, Williams and Jefferson from last year. If you are going to argue the young players have more experience, they started a rookie at PG this year and lost 3 very good veterans with only 1 decent veteran (Jefferson is probably on par with Mo, but not as good as AJ and PM).
 
fishonjazz said:
I thought the roster with foye, mo, marvin, sap, jeffy, carrol, 2nd year burks, 2nd year kanter, 3rd year hayward favors evans, and the rest was a better roster than the rookie burks and kanter, 2nd year hayward favors evans, sap, jeffy, devin harris, josh howard, raja et etc.

Wasnt the teams record better with the raja bell team than randy foye team? (I dont actually know if it was or wasnt but i think the raja team made the playoffs)
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Thanks, forgot about Foye and Carrol in my post.
 
GVC said:
Still waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to early.

When Lindsey took over, the Jazz were a playoff team. The Jazz have gotten worse in each of the two seasons DL has been in charge, and haven't managed to add an impact player.

He fired a coach, and made a couple trades for guys who haven't shown much of anything yet. What are we celebrating?
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we've had enough time to deduce you're a dumbass dick. I used to like like you, and for that I re-think, but I repent, you're nothing but a
has been/once great poster that is now, literally, nothing. You criticize rarely, and post nothing else in between.
 
GVC said:
Still waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to early.

When Lindsey took over, the Jazz were a playoff team. The Jazz have gotten worse in each of the two seasons DL has been in charge, and haven't managed to add an impact player.

He fired a coach, and made a couple trades for guys who haven't shown much of anything yet. What are we celebrating?
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Umm okay.
 
Interesting debate here, guys.

I've been one who thought the Jazz were on time-out while we hung on to Corbin.

I'd like to have hope, now.
 
AKMVP said:
For the record DL did not fire Corbin. Corbin's contract expired and was not renewed.
I will wait for new coach, free agency and draft before I will start singing praise to DL. So far so good but to early to tell if we will be back in playoffs any time soon. The mess KOC created is not that easy to fix.
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Yes, letting the contract expire instead of getting him sacked is the Jazz way. And he stuck to it.
 
PKM said:
we've had enough time to deduce you're a dumbass dick. I used to like like you, and for that I re-think, but I repent, you're nothing but a
has been/once great poster that is now, literally, nothing. You criticize rarely, and post nothing else in between.
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bjunior said:
it's amazing how far you are willing to go just to have a chance to say "i told you so" if DL actually will succeed
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hahaha, relax dude. It's all in good fun.
spycam1 said:
Umm okay.
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That escalated quickly.
 
Stoked said:
What good move are you referring to? I've listed a half dozen.
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A good draft pick this year is the most important one
Other than that i would say convincing Hayward Favors Kanter and Burke for a reasonable contract to stick them all together.
And using Burks as a good trade asset
 
I might count myself excited since Corbin is gone and there is nothing left to put as an excuse to not root for the Jazz to win. The next season will indeed be more exciting. But let's see what kind of roster moves will be made first. What the intentions are. Odds are, Lindsey likes them young. So the long anticipated line-up will be on the floor by the start of the next season. But with Utah Jazz, you never know. I hope RJ and MW stay and sit on the bench.
 
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