This is what you tell your wife when you ask her to make you a sandwich and she whines about it, right?
Are you guys completely cool with your kids dating/marrying someone of a different race?
- Thread starter Sandy Braille
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This is what you tell your wife when you ask her to make you a sandwich and she whines about it, right?
Thanks for the reply. Are you talking about American culture here? If so, in your discussions about LDS, are you just saying that the LDS church is as misogynistic as American culture in general? Or are you saying that, due to having e.g. an all-male priesthood, the LDS church is even more misogynistic than the surrounding culture? I had thought you were saying the latter, but perhaps you are just saying the former.
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Confused by your question. What does the "it" to which you refer that is expressing contempt or prejudice? Thanks for clarifying.
Confused by your question. What does the "it" to which you refer that is expressing contempt or prejudice? Thanks for clarifying.
Well said, we agree on this point.
Generally, "can" refers to an ability. Probably, you meant a right of some sort, that we couldn't/shouldn't pass a law on the subject. In that case, duh.
Try again. Think about what the phrase "proper subjects" meant, and why I made the specific effort to distinguish opinions as not proper versus speculations as potentially proper.
"proper subjects" is your opinion of what is proper, nothing more. I disagree as that is my opinion. Again with your foolish word games.
Because in my flawed world of understanding, you are as interested in having a constructive dialogue as you claim, and I am not taking on the opinion that you are being deceitful or deliberately subversive of that effort. Since I'm not a telepath, when someone tells me their motivation, I take them at their even, even if I note their actions seem to be undermining their stated intent. I don't think so highly of myself that I can read others like open books. How about you?
So, combining this with your earlier statement about women have a special connection to God, are you saying that men have a different special connection that women do not possess? Because otherwise, why isn't it that women, via their special connection, actually stand a little closer in your metaphor?
If you don't mind, I would like to travel that distance, a few sentences at time. That would allow me to focus on what the basis behind the argument is. I don't expect that at the end of the journey I'll see the pot as filled with gold, though, and I don't want you to undertake this thinking that's a likely possibility. It would be unfair to you.
Please go on. I'm listening.
You are right that, in a sexism-free world, I would prefer a much more neutral "Grow up" or "Be a person". However, "Woman up!" at least states that it's just as good to be a fully realized woman as it is to be a fully realized man, and has the additional benefit of pushing against cultural inertia, so it's not an objectionable choice to me in our world.
As I stated above, I'm not an acolyte or potential convert. My current position is that Mormonism is steeped in the same misogyny that infects almost every other religion (Wicca seems to be an exception), and for that matter, is being actively fought in atheist organizations. My understanding of this conversation is that people have been trying to convince me this is not true. I think Wicca is just as foolish and any other religion, but I am convinced it's not misogynistic, so the I don't see the two as connected. I'm open to Mormonism being not misogynistic (or perhaps misogynistic to a lesser degree) than other religions (despite whom they elect to the legislatures in Utah), and that would improve my opinion of the culture around it, but it's likely to have no impact at all on how believable I find its claims. Again, I don't want you to be deceived on that score. If that makes the conversation not worth having to you, I'd rather be honest about it and miss the conversation as opposed to the other option.
Fair enough.
That's a little like posting up your point guards to compensate for their lack of height and forcing centers to dribble the ball across the court, isn't it? 'You're better at us than this, so you can't do it'? Again, why not allow both?
The American culture is misogynistic generally, I see no evidence that the LDS are more so than any other relatively conservative religion (or for that matter, non-religious conservatives and moderates, in many cases).
1) Do you think the use of the term "benevolent sexism" to describe an act of sexism means that there is no contempt or prejudice expressed by that particular expression of sexism for either sex?
I don't consider basic manners to be foolish.