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Game Thread Aug 07, 2020: Utah Jazz vs San Antonio Spurs

Added to Calendar: 08-07-20

Handlogten's Heros said:
That is kind of exactly what I'm saying. 1st and 3rd quarters the game is still competitive and still up for grabs... then he bangs a few in garbage time when it doesn't matter.

He shoots 35% against western conference teams and 44% against the eastern conference (when we are beating up on losers like Washington and NY). If he is closer to 35% than 40%+ that is meaningful.
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Handlogten's Heros said:
That is kind of exactly what I'm saying. 1st and 3rd quarters the game is still competitive and still up for grabs... then he bangs a few in garbage time when it doesn't matter.

He shoots 35% against western conference teams and 44% against the eastern conference (when we are beating up on losers like Washington and NY). If he is closer to 35% than 40%+ that is meaningful.
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10 points margin with 3 minutes left on the 4 quarter, Niang just shoots %35.

This is the definition of garbage stats. He just shoots %35. Lower than his overall percentage.
 
NAOS said:
He’s definitely earned a spot on the bench. The real question is merely whether Q has faith in anybody else. With Morgan getting dinged up, the only other guy would be Brantley.... and even in today’s scenario, he seemed pretty far down Q’s depth chart. It sucks.
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Niang's minutes need to be reduced until he finds his shot which he will and he needs to play all of his minutes with Rudy but I am against cutting all of his minutes. Let him chuck some shots till playoffs so he can come out of his slump.
 
Hekate said:
10 points margin with 3 minutes left on the 4 quarter, Niang just shoots %35.

This is the definition of garbage stats. He just shoots %35. Lower than his overall percentage.
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There are other types of garbage time though... games against NY, Charlotte, Washington, and other bottom feeders get into garbage time very quickly... the opposite also happens when we get waxed by LA Portland etc.

I'd like the cleaning the glass numbers because they filter out all garbage time. It just seems like there are so many games he misses until it really doesn't matter then he hits a few. He has to shoot 40% or higher to really be an nba player and he is now below that mark. You can always come back to him if Brantley or Oni doesn't work, but honestly as the playoffs advance teams only get more athletic and Niang becomes even more of a liability.

Give him the day off tomorrow and throw Brantley and Oni out there... lets just see it in meaningful minutes.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
There are other types of garbage time though... games against NY, Charlotte, Washington, and other bottom feeders get into garbage time very quickly... the opposite also happens when we get waxed by LA Portland etc.

I'd like the cleaning the glass numbers because they filter out all garbage time. It just seems like there are so many games he misses until it really doesn't matter then he hits a few. He has to shoot 40% or higher to really be an nba player and he is now below that mark. You can always come back to him if Brantley or Oni doesn't work, but honestly as the playoffs advance teams only get more athletic and Niang becomes even more of a liability.

Give him the day off tomorrow and throw Brantley and Oni out there... lets just see it in meaningful minutes.
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There is just too much noise in stats if you seperate it by conference. You have no way of knowing when Niang got his stats. It could be that Eastern teams suck ***. The stat I provided includes both conferences as well so it should be a better indicator.

Remember the Houston series where we couldn't hit a shot to save our lives and Niang got more and more minutes? That's where Niang has value. Even if he shoots %38, he shoots it without hesitation. That's another value. I am not saying keep playing him the same minutes but he deserves some minutes out there to let him regain his shot. He has too good of a touch not to.

Now, playoffs are different and if he keeps being a liability, Quin is prolly the first guy to yank him.
 
Hekate said:
There is just too much noise in stats if you seperate it by conference. You have no way of knowing when Niang got his stats. It could be that Eastern teams suck ***. The stat I provided includes both conferences as well so it should be a better indicator.

Remember the Houston series where we couldn't hit a shot to save our lives and Niang got more and more minutes? That's where Niang has value. Even if he shoots %38, he shoots it without hesitation. That's another value. I am not saying keep playing him the same minutes but he deserves some minutes out there to let him regain his shot. He has too good of a touch not to.

Now, playoffs are different and if he keeps being a liability, Quin is prolly the first guy to yank him.
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I’m not sure about Q yanking him. Q can get ride-or-die at times, and I don’t see any evidence that he has any confidence in the guys behind Niang.

I can agree that Niang should use these games to find a rhythm. But the reason I can’t land softly on that position is that I don’t have faith in Q to make this adjustment. So I guess I’d rather see him experiment with the adjustment now. Maybe “experiment” is the wrong word; I’d rather him make the adjustment now and see it proven wrong. Now is a good time for that, too.
 
Hekate said:
There is just too much noise in stats if you seperate it by conference. You have no way of knowing when Niang got his stats. It could be that Eastern teams suck ***. The stat I provided includes both conferences as well so it should be a better indicator.

Remember the Houston series where we couldn't hit a shot to save our lives and Niang got more and more minutes? That's where Niang has value. Even if he shoots %38, he shoots it without hesitation. That's another value. I am not saying keep playing him the same minutes but he deserves some minutes out there to let him regain his shot. He has too good of a touch not to.

Now, playoffs are different and if he keeps being a liability, Quin is prolly the first guy to yank him.
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I feel ya... I just think there is some goofy **** with his shooting splits... then I match it with how I remember (which is super flawed)... makes me think he's a bit of a front runner or stat padder and isn't quite as good a shooter as the overall percentage suggests.

I've seen enough to forego his shooting and look at other options. I think he makes the right plays most of the time too... which is valuable but maybe a touch over-rated. I also think Brantley brings something we desperately need as a big athletic wing defender. He just jumps out at you when he's on the court.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
He's not high gravity though... he's not like Duncan Robinson where you have to stay close or he can take a step one way or another and get his shot off in an instance. He isn't shooting from way behind the line like Bertans.

He's a fine and willing 3 point shooter... lately he's forced a couple he shouldn't. He's had a game or two where his shooting really gave us something we needed in a win (I can only remember the Orlando game).
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I think he looks like he can really shoot it if wide open and given the time to release, but as unathletic as he is, when he needs to speed up the release or run through a screen to get an open three so he can get his shot against nba level defenders, then he's not really able to do it

Ingles were able to get better on those things, but before he did It, he were still a better defender, ballhandler and playmaker
 
rjfan said:
I think he looks like he can really shoot it if wide open and given the time to release, but as unathletic as he is, when he needs to speed up the release or run through a screen to get an open three so he can get his shot against nba level defenders, then he's not really able to do it

Ingles were able to get better on those things, but before he did It, he were still a better defender, ballhandler and playmaker
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Yeah Ingles has length and is very good laterally. Niang is undersized, without length , and much slower. He tries hard... He's useful... I think Brantley could be a breakout guy though.

I'm also the guy that said Royce should be our starting 4 like 2-3 years ago... I sometimes hate how slow Quin is to catch up to me (sarcasm of course).
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Yeah Ingles has length and is very good laterally. Niang is undersized, without length , and much slower. He tries hard... He's useful... I think Brantley could be a breakout guy though.

I'm also the guy that said Royce should be our starting 4 like 2-3 years ago... I sometimes hate how slow Quin is to catch up to me (sarcasm of course).
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Pretty sure they got the same exact wingspan.
 
I can't believe I've been pushing for Brantley to play over Niang for a like an entire year. And I'm still gonna have to b***** even after todays game where it was blatantly obvious who needs to get those minutes... BRANTLEY.
 
rjfan said:
I think he looks like he can really shoot it if wide open and given the time to release, but as unathletic as he is, when he needs to speed up the release or run through a screen to get an open three so he can get his shot against nba level defenders, then he's not really able to do it

Ingles were able to get better on those things, but before he did It, he were still a better defender, ballhandler and playmaker
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He has one of the better lightly contested 3pt% on the team. And his tightly contested 3 is better than Ingles has ever been...
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Pretty sure they got the same exact wingspan.
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One guy plays mostly guard one guy is exclusively a 4 (or should be at least). Both are listed the same but Joe gets more than 2x as many deflections per minute as Niang.

So I think its safe to say Ingles has better positional length.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Yeah Ingles has length and is very good laterally. Niang is undersized, without length , and much slower. He tries hard... He's useful... I think Brantley could be a breakout guy though.

I'm also the guy that said Royce should be our starting 4 like 2-3 years ago... I sometimes hate how slow Quin is to catch up to me (sarcasm of course).
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Bad thing of Royce at the four is that Rudy can't make 1 or 2 steps ahead to contest midrange jumpers without an easy lob to the other team big, and that is a problem as Mitchell and Conley (and Clarkson) can't get to stay in front of their man on the backcourt, so we basically keep giving at least wide open in rhythm midrangers that good nba level offense are more than fine converting, instead of the "contested enough to not be a really good shot" midrange that we were able to when we had Favors and Crowder.

We even are ok at getting the boards when guys are doing their jobs of boxing out, but contest shots is the real trouble.
 
I like what I saw out of the young guys. They all have some good moments and some not so good but I thought they played hard and hustled. Oni was more aggressive offensively today. He had his moments on defense, staying in front of his guys for the most part. Brantley made some shots and even played decent defense . He did miss a few rotations too and the turnover where he threw the ball in was just immaturity of not paying attention because he got frustrated giving up a basket. Morgan had a few good plays but it is obvious he cannot guard tall centers. He should be a four instead of five. I enjoyed watching the game even though we were not playing are regular guys.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Pretty sure they got the same exact wingspan.
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Doesn't seems hard to see who has much better footwork, bbiq and capacity of absorbing contact between them to make their arms a tool to contest shots instead of a pair of invitations to the ft line.
 
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