What's new

Brexit, Hate Crime, and the Trajectory of the U.S.

BYE

Well-Known Member
In the U.K., hate crimes are rising after Brexit and thus the political sanctioning of chauvinism/jingoism. A polish man was killed recently by being targeted by teen thugs, but this is the tip of the iceberg there. There is no question that what has happened in the U.K. is illustrative of what is happening here.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-36746763

Besides Trump’s access to nuclear weapons and his volatile temperament, his emphasis on division and his framing/belittling of "the other" are the most troubling to me in this election. His rallies are an indication of the hate and rage that many of his followers are feeling. Trump feeds this anger and empowers them. He gives these people a crystal clear target by defining "the other." The other is “criminals,” “rapists,” “thieves,” and “terrorists,” who are Mexicans, blacks, Muslims, the Chinese, etc. (some local, others foreign), not to mention his overall misogyny.

The comparisons of Trump to Hitler are definitely superficial in most cases, but Trump most definitely resembles Hitler in his demagoguery and cunning in using deep and painful hate to motivate. Trump definitely learned something from his copy of Hitler’s My New Order, that he kept by his bed. Couple this with the many white supremacist connections and his feigned ignorance of these people, and you have a perfect recipe for what has begun in Britain, violence toward “the other” and solidification around “us.” There are many on here who have drawn attention to the Alt-right, and this is just more evidence towards this movement.

There is a very real chance that Trump wins, and I have lost a lot of faith in America this year. I’ve always loved America and had pride in America, but I’ve never had the “tears-in-my-eyes” experience when seeing the American flag etc. However, if Trump is defeated, I believe it will be the proudest I have been of the people of my nation. I know others see it differently. I just thought I knew who we were at the core.
 
I'm sorry, but if you feel Hillary (Trump aside) resembles the "American core" then either you or me have a very different ideal of America and where we've come from to get here.
 
I swear to God, [MENTION=26]Gameface[/MENTION], if you post anything with the word penis I will slap you with it.
 
I'm sorry, but if you feel Hillary (Trump aside) resembles the "American core" then either you or me have a very different ideal of America and where we've come from to get here.

I said nothing of Hillary, and if there were any way to defeat Trump without voting for Hillary, I would love to know about it. Once again, this horse **** about them being equally as bad is just that, horse ****. Take one week of Donald Trump's horrific lies, gaffs, and open bigotry and add them up. Then compare them to the last 30 years of Clinton's existence. You would be hard-pressed to find a week in which Trump didn't surpass Clinton's life lies, gaffs, and open bigotry. I'm talking about 100% known actions and words, not the speculation both candidates are receiving, e.g., Trump University, Trump's foundation, Trump's tax returns, and Clinton's foundation. These are all unknowns at the moment unless you deem yourself investigator, lawyer, judge, and jury.

I'm also not talking about partisan ideologies because that's a never-ending debate. I wouldn't be brazen enough to claim that one or the other parties is more or less like what the Founding Fathers envisioned. I leave that up to the acolytes of each party. I'm talking about bipartisan ideals with respect to human decency and hate mongering in a way that is bringing us back at least forty years from an ideological perspective. As a point, Trump, with his rhetoric, does not happen even during the seventies when it comes to hate and blame. Trump as a movie character is the antagonist every time.

I do find it interesting how you deflected my original statements though and said nothing about what Brexit can teach us. Trump was able to rise to power at a certain point in history. A Trump election to the presidency changes the world. I for one don't like the track record of demagogues. On the other hand, I don't mind the historical record of a female president of the U.S.
 
I said nothing of Hillary, and if there were any way to defeat Trump without voting for Hillary, I would love to know about it. Once again, this horse **** about them being equally as bad is just that, horse ****. Take one week of Donald Trump's horrific lies, gaffs, and open bigotry and add them up. Then compare them to the last 30 years of Clinton's existence. You would be hard-pressed to find a week in which Trump didn't surpass Clinton's life lies, gaffs, and open bigotry. I'm talking about 100% known actions and words, not the speculation both candidates are receiving, e.g., Trump University, Trump's foundation, Trump's tax returns, and Clinton's foundation. These are all unknowns at the moment unless you deem yourself investigator, lawyer, judge, and jury.

I'm also not talking about partisan ideologies because that's a never-ending debate. I wouldn't be brazen enough to claim that one or the other parties is more or less like what the Founding Fathers envisioned. I leave that up to the acolytes of each party. I'm talking about bipartisan ideals with respect to human decency and hate mongering in a way that is bringing us back at least forty years from an ideological perspective. As a point, Trump, with his rhetoric, does not happen even during the seventies when it comes to hate and blame. Trump as a movie character is the antagonist every time.

I do find it interesting how you deflected my original statements though and said nothing about what Brexit can teach us. Trump was able to rise to power at a certain point in history. A Trump election to the presidency changes the world. I for one don't like the track record of demagogues. On the other hand, I don't mind the historical record of a female president of the U.S.

I hate to think of all of the Americans who have sacrificed for the American ideal over our nearly 250 years of existence, that it might come to Donald Trump as our President.
 
I said nothing of Hillary, and if there were any way to defeat Trump without voting for Hillary, I would love to know about it. Once again, this horse **** about them being equally as bad is just that, horse ****. Take one week of Donald Trump's horrific lies, gaffs, and open bigotry and add them up. Then compare them to the last 30 years of Clinton's existence. You would be hard-pressed to find a week in which Trump didn't surpass Clinton's life lies, gaffs, and open bigotry. I'm talking about 100% known actions and words, not the speculation both candidates are receiving, e.g., Trump University, Trump's foundation, Trump's tax returns, and Clinton's foundation. These are all unknowns at the moment unless you deem yourself investigator, lawyer, judge, and jury.

I'm also not talking about partisan ideologies because that's a never-ending debate. I wouldn't be brazen enough to claim that one or the other parties is more or less like what the Founding Fathers envisioned. I leave that up to the acolytes of each party. I'm talking about bipartisan ideals with respect to human decency and hate mongering in a way that is bringing us back at least forty years from an ideological perspective. As a point, Trump, with his rhetoric, does not happen even during the seventies when it comes to hate and blame. Trump as a movie character is the antagonist every time.

I do find it interesting how you deflected my original statements though and said nothing about what Brexit can teach us. Trump was able to rise to power at a certain point in history. A Trump election to the presidency changes the world. I for one don't like the track record of demagogues. On the other hand, I don't mind the historical record of a female president of the U.S.

Do you live under a rock or something?

It was just over ten years ago that Hillary had the same views on immigration as Trump does.

Dont try and say people change either. Thats far too late in her life to make those kind of changes on how she really feels. She says what she needs to to get votes.
Thats problem with her, and thats the problem with you people willing to ignore her warts.
 
Do you live under a rock or something?

It was just over ten years ago that Hillary had the same views on immigration as Trump does.

Dont try and say people change either. Thats far too late in her life to make those kind of changes on how she really feels. She says what she needs to to get votes.
Thats problem with her, and thats the problem with you people willing to ignore her warts.

Lol, your never to old to learn and change your mind on issues. That is one of the sillies things I have ever heard. I know your pretending to be a computer but come on...

That might be your problem, if you see the world and all of its issues exactly the same as you did 10 years ago you might be too set in your ways and unwilling to learn and grow as a human. Immigration has changed as an issue, the ideas, the problems, our culture, our morals have all changed and in my opinion we have gotten much better as a society. I am glad to see when politicians change their minds and evolve as humans. That is one of those things that makes Clinton a good candidate, she is looking to make the country better and even if she has been wrong on some issues or is wrong currently on some issues she is willing to listen, learn, take advice from experts and change her view and mind on issues regardless of party lines.

Fact check from the debate (and the entire election process for that matter) showed that clearly one of them is a liar and will say anything to get elected even if that means making up facts, that person is not Clinton though.
 
Lol, your never to old to learn and change your mind on issues. That is one of the sillies things I have ever heard. I know your pretending to be a computer but come on...

That might be your problem, if you see the world and all of its issues exactly the same as you did 10 years ago you might be too set in your ways and unwilling to learn and grow as a human. Immigration has changed as an issue, the ideas, the problems, our culture, our morals have all changed and in my opinion we have gotten much better as a society. I am glad to see when politicians change their minds and evolve as humans. That is one of those things that makes Clinton a good candidate, she is looking to make the country better and even if she has been wrong on some issues or is wrong currently on some issues she is willing to listen, learn, take advice from experts and change her view and mind on issues regardless of party lines.

Fact check from the debate (and the entire election process for that matter) showed that clearly one of them is a liar and will say anything to get elected even if that means making up facts, that person is not Clinton though.

I disagree on this part of it. When Trump puts out his stance on immigration he is labled a racist. So Hillary was a racist 10 years ago, but now isnt? Its the same issue. I dont think it makes you any more racist now than it would 10 years. Its the same thing. So you are suggesting that its ok that Hillary was a racist, but now isnt? That goes over well, never. If Trump changed his stance tomorrow, would he suddenly not be a racist in the minds on the left? I seriously doubt it. Also, Trump has tried to change his mind on things, and he gets criticized for it. Why doesnt he get the same credit you give Hillary for wanting to to grow and change? Its because there is a double standard, a bias. Do you see how your view on this is contradicting?

BTW, this has nothing to do with me against immigration either. I support it. I think its good for the country. I just think you should be paying taxes and not be on welfare if you come here. Thats my only issue with it. This is about the double standard view on Hillary and Trump. Its ridiculous. There is no logic on how the left thinks.
 
I disagree on this part of it. When Trump puts out his stance on immigration he is labled a racist. So Hillary was a racist 10 years ago, but now isnt? Its the same issue. I dont think it makes you any more racist now than it would 10 years. Its the same thing. So you are suggesting that its ok that Hillary was a racist, but now isnt? That goes over well, never. If Trump changed his stance tomorrow, would he suddenly not be a racist in the minds on the left? I seriously doubt it. Also, Trump has tried to change his mind on things, and he gets criticized for it. Why doesnt he get the same credit you give Hillary for wanting to to grow and change? Its because there is a double standard, a bias. Do you see how your view on this is contradicting?

BTW, this has nothing to do with me against immigration either. I support it. I think its good for the country. I just think you should be paying taxes and not be on welfare if you come here. Thats my only issue with it. This is about the double standard view on Hillary and Trump. Its ridiculous. There is no logic on how the left thinks.

Trump is a racist for many more reasons than this. But yes our definition and how we as a country feel about racism and our knowledge of racism has changed for the better. Clinton has been apart of that change for the better. Its great that something that was racist 10 years ago but not identified and understood now is. We have a leader that keeps up and changes. Watch TV in the 90s its racists and homophobic slurs left and right, we have improved. If Trump came out and said that he realized his stance was racist and changed his mind on an issue I would commend him and like that attribute in him. If he came out tomorrow and said that isnt what he meant or he never said that then I would not respect him.

Not sure why discussing this with you is worth my or anyone elses time. You have said that Clinton is too old to changer her mind on issues so I am guessing you are too old to change your mind on any issues.

On a side note I think its funny how people dislike candidates because they dont agree with everyone of their policies or decisions. You should never agree with ever one of their decisions or policies. I dont agree with anyone on every issue let along a political leader and I never will, if you do believe 100% the same as a leader you are probably brain washed.
 
...Immigration has changed as an issue, the ideas, the problems, our culture, our morals have all changed and in my opinion we have gotten much better as a society. I am glad to see when politicians change their minds and evolve as humans. That is one of those things that makes Clinton a good candidate, she is looking to make the country better and even if she has been wrong on some issues or is wrong currently on some issues she is willing to listen, learn, take advice from experts and change her view and mind on issues regardless of party lines...
This is all true, circumstances on immigration have changed over the past ten years, including the raw numbers. Any thoughtful person should be willing to adapt our opinions to changing realities.

According to Pew Research, the population of unauthorized immigrants from Mexico peaked in 2007 at 6.9 million right around the time Clinton was making her anti-immigration statements. Since then unauthorized immigration has been dropping and is now at an estimated 5.6 million. Net migration from Mexico has been negative every year since 2008.

https://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/chapter-1-migration-flows-between-the-u-s-and-mexico-have-slowed-and-turned-toward-mexico/#number-of-unauthorized-mexican-immigrants-declines
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50tLUh2pa68
 
Top