Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
See, even AKMVP opposes the idea. The matter has been decided. NO AK47.
Bring back the Mo Hawk!
- Thread starter crater77
- Start date
No business man builds support around incompetence. It's not like KD, Westbrook, and Harden are running ESA hardwood.
Then I guess it is a good thing that incompetence is not a good way to describe the Core 4. Inexperienced perhaps but spare me the trolling Franklin*
To have a "Core 4" you have to have a core, which the Jazz clearly do not. You don't build around not. Period.
We do. Period.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Not sure we have a Core4, as I'm not sold on Burks being more than a pretty good 6th/7th man. But I do believe Favors, Kanter and Hayward are or will be very special players. I won't predict all-star appearances, as the ASG vote is as much about celebrity as playing ability. But I do think those 3 ARE players to build around. Add 2 lottery picks (this year and next) and starter(s) or additional lottery pick(s) Utah can obtain with their $27M in cap space and this team should be very much in the discussion of franchises with the best young players. I'm not really concerned with contending this season or next. But if you look at the Jazz' prospects in the next 3+ years, Utah could be well on their way to the type of success we were spoiled with back in the Stockton and Malone days. Perhaps even better, since the team will be better balanced.
green
Well-Known Member
Do we? Can you really say that? Hayward is nice, but he has never been "the man" and hasn't let us anywhere yet.
Favors can't stay out of foul trouble and has zero offensive game.
Kanter is helpless under the rim.
All three have tremendous upside, but all three have big holes in their game as well. They might be great, they might suck. This is what is so ridiculous about the Jazz/Corbin the last three years. We traded a superstar, let a perennial All-Star walk, and ran a HOF coach out of town for what?
This organization has taken a HUGE step backwards. It's nothing Kanter turning into a superstar, or drafting a Wiggins can't fix, but there is nothing you can say with any certainty either.
Either way building off of Kanter, Hayward, Favors, Burks, Evans and Carroll is a good place to start. Are there holes? Of course there are. But the Jazz also hold the 14, 21 and 40something picks this draft.
Also if the Jazz go with the youth there is a good chance that they have a draft pick in next years draft as well. Some of you think it will be a top 10 pick as well.
So ha! Suck it Frank. Jazz are looking good.
Hayward is that great glue guy.
Kanter has shown great improvement last year. I think we will see continued improvement this year.
Favors is rapidly becoming a defensive powerhouse. The combo of him and Kanter down low has the potential to be dominate/scary.
Burks has elite level ability to get to the rim and foul line.
Evans is a high energy/hustle player
Carroll is that player that fights from bell to bell.
To me that is a damn good place to start. Add to that 2 1st round picks this year and I think we are seeing the Jazz of the future taking place.
Kanter maybe. Favors is a very nice support player. So is Hayward. That's not a core though, it's potential with a somewhat known ceiling at this point.
Spare me the trolling, stoked*.
So the Jazz have a "Core" but will still land deep in the lottery next season? Makes no sense.
Jazz need an all star. They don't have one yet. Kanter is the only possible all star on the team.
No one said elite core. Core of all stars. It's just our possible core, for better or worse, going forward. If Burks is a 6th man off the bench he can still be apart of mythical core 4 we have been talking about. Meaning we go forward with these players, and build around them.
To me this is the season to see if we have a core at all. It's all speculation until now based on limited information. Besides Hayward we haven't seen any of these
guys in the spotlight getting the focus, and shots other players have. Even Hayward's exposure is limited. With Sap/Al and more gone we'll truly see what we have this year.
To me this is the season to see if we have a core at all. It's all speculation until now based on limited information. Besides Hayward we haven't seen any of these
guys in the spotlight getting the focus, and shots other players have. Even Hayward's exposure is limited. With Sap/Al and more gone we'll truly see what we have this year.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
What was OKC's record in the first couple of years with KD, Green and then with Westbrook? Took them a few years to make the playoffs, IIRC. Corbin has stunted the growth of Favors, Kanter and Burks by limiting their minutes. OKC threw their youngsters into the fire early. And just about every other team with lottery picks, especially #3's does the same. Will Utah be "deep" in the lottery? I doubt it. But I don't see them winning 45 games. Next season may even be like a couple of years ago when it took 50 wins to make the playoffs in the WC. Go with youth, especially with a rookie PG (or even Tinsley/Watson) and the Jazz will likely be in the 35-40 range. An injury here or there with a young, inexperienced bench and that total could drop to 30. Both Favors and Kanter are among the 27 USA Basketball camp invites. I think that says a lot about their skills and potential.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Point is, teams need a rotation of 8-9 players, with a "Big 3" to lead the way. In the absence of 3 stars, Detroit showed you can win with a very good starting five. Utah has half of their rotation in place with Kanter, Favors, Hayward and Burks. DMC could also be part of the rotation as a backup SF. What's left? A starting PG and either a true backup PG or a combo guard, a third big, and a starting wing (assuming we slot in Burks as a backup). Assume we pick up one of those players at either 14 or 21 (I'm even allowing for a bust at one of the picks) and one player with our lottery pick next season. That leaves our $27M in cap space to either sign FA's, get them via trade (a very likely scenario), or acquire additional high picks in return for taking on contracts (also plausible). Then you fill in the roster (9-14) with 2nd-rounders, undrafted FA's and vets on minimum contracts. Jazz have a VERY good chance of building a contender!
If you notice the way i word it I am not one of those that thinks the Jazz will do so poorly. I think that a Jazz team centered on Kanter, Favors, Hayward, Burks, Carroll and Evans does about what we did last year. My point was that even if they don't then we get a high draft pick and those that think we do not have a core have another chance to get that Allstar player.
I can play with this and hope the Jazz build like Detroit (and Kanter becomes a dominant scoring machine), but I completely disagree that Detroit had no stars. They had five stars, and four played in an All Star game on court together. So let's compare those Detroit teams with the Jazz:
Is Favors as good a defender as Ben Wallace? No way, not even close. He might get there if he learns to not get bullied around in the post. He already provides more offense though, and that will improve more. I'll call this one even, and that's being charitable to Utah.
Rasheed Wallace was a top tier player on both ends when motivated. I believe Kanter can offer better defense and boarding than Wallace, & believe he has the potential on offense. I'll call this one even as well to save an argument.
Tayshan Prince - Jazz don't have anyone at the three who will make 4 straight All Defensive teams while giving 14/3/5 at a pretty efficient clip.
Gordon Hayward - RIP Hamilton. Can Gordon put up numbers to make 3 All Star games? Average 18 points or better for several seasons, while doing it as a specialty threat within an offense instead of creating his own? That's hoping for a lot.
Chauncey Billups - Possibly one of the most underrated players ever. He didn't put up the stats, but he put up better win shares than players like Steve Nash. If the Jazz had a Billups then they'd have a core to build around.
So that's 3 "Possibly" and two blanks. Where do the Jazz magically find two multi-year All Stars of Rip and Chauncey caliber?
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
@Franklin. Agree Favors, Kanter and Hayward are not at the level of those Detroit player IN THEIR PRIME years. But only Hayward has been given significant playing time. And 2 years ago he was the best shooter in the NBA after the all-star game. Let's see if Kanter and Favors develop into the Dynamic Duo. I think both can be very good players at both ends of the court. Hayward is already at 14/3/3. Take away Black Hole (and Millsap), factor in that the Jazz have already stated they want Hayward to take more of a lead, and I don't think it's a stretch to say Gordon can put up 18/5/3. As for Chauncey and Rip (or Tayshaun), yes, I do agree the Jazz are TWO players short. They have 3 ways to add those players: 1) this year's draft. I'm hoping they can trade the 14 and 21 to move up. If not, maybe their picks just become solid backups; 2) next year's lottery. No way do the Jazz make the playoffs. The draft will be deep. Plenty of opportunities to pick up an impact starter; 3) $27M in cap space. They could pick up both players at the deadline. There will be many teams deciding to either rebuild or looking to escape the dreadful 1.5-2X tax penalty. Jazz will have lots of deals on the table because they can give 100% relief to teams by not having to give back salary in a trade. This route could also include additional 2014 picks.