Bully Ball and the Jazz

[Boris]

No, the refs need to call the fouls, and they aren't. It's absolutely ridiculous. I don't think the Jazz play dirty or even that physical compared to other teams who regularly use the stiff arm on both offense and defense. Guys like Bledsoe just bull into players with their shoulders. Did you see that one play that sent Mack flying and there was no call -- that was the one where Harp and Boller said it was more like a football play. Now you know Harp isn't and never was a soft player -- he used to face up Artest and not flinch. And Bledsoe constantly grabs on to people or pushes them away. In the game I saw in person, on the first possession of that game he pushed Dante who went flying on the ground and the refs never called a foul.

But in my assessment, a lot of these comebacks by other teams have been fueled by overly aggressive bully ball and the refs swallowing their whistles. Anyone who can't see that is blind. Holding, pushing, grabbing, putting a shoulder into someone, free-wheel elbowing are fouls but they're not being called.

I saw Hayward hold players three times on one last game an he never got called. In front of refs an practically hugging the roll man to stop progression.

 

[str8line]

Saint... I read your post after I wrote mine. Agreed in full. The off ball small things don't get attention in a disproportionate way. The on ball high flying plays get more than they should disproportionate attention. The subtle and constant approach has been effective. But that's on the refs and the league.

Next game, watch how many times Hood and Hayward are grabbed or bumped or pushed or hooked as they try to use screens. Perhaps the Jazz need to work on countering it by pushing off at the right times to create space so the grabbing can't happen. Then again, pushing off gets called more often than grabbing. It's easier to see.

Yup, Hayward has gotten raped his whole career and now that he's a star he's still getting raped. There are certain times that Quin needs to step up and lose his ****.

 

[Miggs]

So it's a recent phenomenon that players commit fouls and the refs dont see them or dont call them all?

Hint: It's not. That was basically the premise of Jerry Sloan's entire defensive philosophy: Foul a ton so refs cant call everything, raising the bar of physicality in the game that your opponents may have a hard time adjusting to. If anything this has decreased in the modern basketball era.

This is an interesting approach and like you said nothing new. This has been, in essence, a huge part of the Seattle Seahawks' success. Their corners are known to have that same mentality. Be physical as hell. The refs aren't going to call PI on every play, I suppose because it'll screw up the rhythm of the game and become ridiculous and make it unwatchable.

 

[Cappy_Smurf]

I just think the way you think going about it is wrong. You are a proponent for the "send a message hard foul" which IMO is a negative approach in this philosophy. That forces the refs to call a ton of fouls in an effort to control the game from getting out of control. The whole point of doing this is so refs dont call fouls. The way to execute this is to just do a ton of small things, grabbing/holding/pushing, very subtle fouls that refs can't possibly call every time, especially if you make those transgressions the norm for the match. Joe Ingles is probably a better player at executing this than Booker, whose bravado brings attention from the refs to himself whereas Joe can fly under the radar with his fouls, like John Stockton.

I can agree with this. However, when the Jazz are getting clowned by the Warriors and are down too far and too late to come back anyway, I'd love to see Draymond Green get absolutely ****ing leveled, or at least take a boot to the head. He totally deserves it. Also, even though Durant doesn't necessarily deserve it, I wouldn't mind seeing him get clocked as well. It would make a painful loss seem a little more tolerable.

And I'm not talking about anything obviously cheap that would get players suspended. Or, at least not our key players. Maybe Bolomboy could be our goon.

 

[Getting Traded]

The point I was trying to make was that refs should call it by the book, by the rules, and they aren't. Maybe it's just that if they called every point of contact it would be a foul-shooting match. I remember in the last league I played in, an over-50 league, the refs rule was no harm, no foul. This makes sense to me.

I think the Jingles approach is a good one and it frustrated Booker and took him out of the game. I know myself when I played, being very small and quicker than anyone I was playing with, guys were constantly holding or pushing me, and I never got calls, but it took me out of my game and the only advantage I had -- that's why I scored most of my points in transition or on the breaks. That's also why it's important for PGs to be strong and never get easily pushed around the way they do Exum. I haven't been watching Isaiah Thomas lately. It will be interesting to see how he copes with that. I know Barea is like a little muscle man and guys bounce off him.

 

[Boris]

I can agree with this. However, when the Jazz are getting clowned by the Warriors and are down too far and too late to come back anyway, I'd love to see Draymond Green get absolutely ****ing leveled, or at least take a boot to the head. He totally deserves it. Also, even though Durant doesn't necessarily deserve it, I wouldn't mind seeing him get clocked as well. It would make a painful loss seem a little more tolerable.

And I'm not talking about anything obviously cheap that would get players suspended. Or, at least not our key players. Maybe Bolomboy could be our goon.

Draymond needs to get straight up graded.