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Burglar Shot Dead

Marcus said:
West Valley or Kearns? LOL Please tell me that you're not one of these simps that really thinks West Valley or Kearns are anything near what Watts or the Chicago projects are.

I grew up in Taylorsville just on the edge of West Valley. Approximately 4700 S. 3600 W. When I was in high school I was dating a girl that lived on the east side. On one date we invited her girl friend along but I had to swing back home to grab something. As we got further and further west this friend literally started to hyper-ventilate and cry. She was really freaking me out as I thought she had some serious health issue going on. I pulled the truck over to make sure everythhing was cool and she actually started to bawl like a 2 year old. The reason? She just knew she was going be raped and murdered. Her exact words between sobs, "I'm really, really scared. I've never been this far west before!"
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Nope. I understand the difference. With that being said, bad **** can happen anywhere. Including Disneyland.
 
TheDude said:
You obviously have not read this entire thread since you continue to presume things that have already been stated to the contrary. I would hate to kill anyone. But if they were threat to my family, I certainly would, and wouldn't hesitate.

Do you have a wife/kids? Maybe for a single guy with nothing to defend but himself I could understand somewhat where you are coming from.
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I love how he turned to "you guys are hard asses that act like killing anyone isn't a thing" card on us. Especially after we already explained how it would suck and how bad it would be. Just because I understand why people kill home intruders and what I would do if I felt my family, kids, myself were in danger, it doesn't make me a vicious killer or douche. Guys like PP need to get over themselves.
 
Archie Moses said:
I love how he turned to "you guys are hard asses that act like killing anyone isn't a thing" card on us. Especially after we already explained how it would suck and how bad it would be. Just because I understand why people kill home intruders and what I would do if I felt my family, kids, myself were in danger, it doesn't make me a vicious killer or douche. Guys like PP need to get over themselves.
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That's the entire point. He wasn't in the home. He was attempting to break in. You are both employing the same method of making my arguments seem inferior by marginalizing what I'm saying. You are contradicting yourself by saying that it would suck but you would have no reason popping off a shot without warning on a person who was attempting to get your sliding glass door open. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge that warning the intruder is a good policy, in favor of "shoot first, ask questions later" makes you come across as if you're trying to act tough. The bottom line is that in every attempt to make your point the best you can come up with is that you will do whatever it takes to protect your family. I'm not saying I wouldn't do that, I would just do it in a more reasonable way than walking downstairs, seeing that someone's trying to break in, making sure its not my kid, and then blasting him.
 
Further, just because you throw the qualifier that you would feel really bad about it, doesn't make your stance understandable, it takes away from your argument when you acknowledge the baggage that would likely come with taking another person's life, then choose to ignore it and say that you would shoot them anyway.
 
Darkwing Duck said:
You know where he is versus you don't know where he is. If he's jimmying open a sliding glass door, he'll just maneuver himself between the wall and the flashlight. If he has a gun and willing to go the distance with it, you'd rather know where he is then not knowing.
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So, this is a guy, still outside your house, who sees you with a gun, and rather than take off and try the next house, is going to try to have a shootout? Seriously?
 
prodigal punk said:
Further, just because you throw the qualifier that you would feel really bad about it, doesn't make your stance understandable, it takes away from your argument when you acknowledge the baggage that would likely come with taking another person's life, then choose to ignore it and say that you would shoot them anyway.
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there's baggage with every decision...yet we all make decisions all the time.
 
Try the next house? So he's assuming you wouldn't call the police?

If he's made the decision to shoot if spotted, won't matter if he has a gun.

Are you just going to hope that he ran off and wouldn't come back?
 
prodigal punk said:
Further, just because you throw the qualifier that you would feel really bad about it, doesn't make your stance understandable, it takes away from your argument when you acknowledge the baggage that would likely come with taking another person's life, then choose to ignore it and say that you would shoot them anyway.
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Blah blah blah blah blah. Bottom line, if someone is threatening my family by breaking into my house, I would shoot them. Yes, I would hate to take a human life, but I would rather live with that then live without my wife and 3 young children.

It seems to me that there you and 1 other guy that don't see any validity to what we are trying to say... so maybe that makes you the dumbass.
 
Isn't this a case where it is best to assume the worst about the intruder? With the caveat, of course, that you can control yourself if/when the intruder isn't what he/she seems to be.

That is, I would initially approach the situation with the mindset that the intruder means serious harm to me/my family. But when I see he is an 18 year old punk armed only with a pocket knife, then I would try to revert to scare tactics to get him to run.

Then again, I would need to be prepared to engage him if he/she is stupid enough to try. Again, statistically speaking, if they are high on drugs, it is not a foregone conclusion that blasting them in the face with a flashlight will do the trick. "Cocaine," I have heard, "is a hell of a drug."
 
Here's the problem with rubber bullets -- They can still kill. So in order to use them you must be justified to use leathal force. The problem is that many people thinking they are taking the high road will shoot in situation with rubber bullets when they would not have shot with real bullets. The potential for accidents and mistakes is greater. The other problem, if you are justified in using leathal force then that means your life is in danger. If your life is in danger your one and only goal must be to STOP THE THREAT. The best way to stop the threat is to shoot them with rugular ammo, preferably a type of ammo widely used by law enforcement.

The same goes for shooting in the leg or (haha) shooting the weapon out of the criminal's hands. You don't try to get fancy in a life or death situation. If you're life is in danger then shoot center mass until the threat has stoped. End of story.
 
Why would he come back? To stop you from calling the police.

Or he quickly decides he doesn't care anymore.

Or he decides it's cowardly to flee.

Or he feels he has something to prove to himself.

Or he saw something in the window he's willing to die for trying to get.

Or he feels you're a punk *** bitch for pointing a gun at him and has to teach you a lesson.

Then you get into irrationality.
 
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Darkwing Duck said:
Why would he come back? To stop you from calling the police.

Or he quickly decides he doesn't care anymore.

Or he decides it's cowardly to flee.

Or he feels he has something to prove to himself.

Or he saw something in the window he's willing to die for trying to get.

Or he feels you're a punk *** bitch for point a gun at him and has to teach you a lesson.

Then you get into irrationality.
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That last point is especially salient. Rationality - on both sides - flies out of the window faster than the bullets that are launching out of your gun. That's not to say you couldn't have an informed, reasoned "plan of action" ahead of time, but it's hard to model irrationality and other variables of human action.
 
prodigal punk said:
Actually, a .22 that hits in the center mass will bounce around in the chest cavity and shred all your major organs up. You're more likely to live if a higher caliber bullet goes in and right out the other side.
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Archie Moses said:
You've obviously haven't read the thread. I've already explained how that would effect me, and I've said I understand why people shoot home intruders. It has nothing to do with me acting like I'm a tough ***.
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I've heard this so often. It simply isn't true. A .22LR round does not have enough energy to bounce around in your chest cavity and shred you up. It may change direction when it hits bone, but to bounce around would require going through a lot of resistence. The bullet isn't heavy enough and the speed it travels at is not fast enough to make that possible.

The hollow point bullets that are supposed to open up are just marketing hype. Handgun ammo isn't traveling fast enough to actually get much of an effect from hollow point rounds.
 
Another argument that has been put forth as to how the situation could have been diffused was to turn on the lights. This would be a very bad decision.

If you turned on the house lights inside you become blind to what is outside the window whereas you will be lit up like a Christmas tree for the intruder to easily see... and take aim if that's the intent.

Lighting the porch light would have likely meant crossing the floor in front of the glass window where the intruder was trying to gain entrance making yourself an easy target. Porch light switches are typically located right next to the door. Not only do you take the risk of being seen you put yourself that much closer to the danger.
 
I think this particular home owner was in the wrong. I don't think it's okay to shoot through a screen door at a person you cannot identify. I think yelling "Stop or I'll shoot!" is the least you can do in that situation. Firing rounds blindly into the night is just plain old wrong.
 
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